Cargo Bike Experiment

Introducing Legacy Frameworks' newest experiment - The Ox

An all steel cycle truck with integrated front and rear racks. 

Frame

Overall Sized small with fork steerer long to fit me (6'2") - Largest size range compatibility
Chromolly Steel Throughout with Butted Main tubes.

Racks permanently welded - no hardware to fail or vibrate.

Unique Components:

Three Speed/Drum Brake Rear Hub on 26" Wheel

XL Drum brake/Dyno front hub on 20" Wheel (lower center of gravity for front load)

Schwalbe Big Apple Raceguard 2.15 tires

Sturdy Fixed double leg kick stand.

Adjustable fork ends - for testing riding characteristics under load

To Come:

Modular Cargo System - Easy release when going up stairs or onto a bus.

Lots of Cargo Capacity, Weight and Size tests

Paint

Let me know what you think.

Levi

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Duppie on November 26, 2012 at 9:21am

Me likey! A lot! especially the curving in the front rack

A few comments:

1 Modular cargo system. As an owner of a Halsted, I can tell you that there is no way this bike will fit on a bus bike rack. They only hold 26"/700c (or close to that size) wheels. So i wouldn't worry too much about easy removal of the rack system if that means adding cost or complexity. Also this bike likely weighs a lot (upwards of 30 LB?) This is not a bike for people that carry bikes up multiple flight of stairs. I store mine in the basement and that is 6 steps down, which is doable.

2. Loading the bike. That is the hard part on a Halsted. It looks like you have a similar kick stand and on the Halsted the kickstand is insufficient. A better one would be this one:http://www.albabici.com/ursus/kickstands/ursus-kickstand-80.htm (Yes, it does cost 3 times as much a standard kickstand... but I think there is Taiwanese made version as well which should be cheaper.)

Good luck with it!

Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on November 26, 2012 at 11:11am

Looks great!

I really like the adjustable fork ends, that seems like a good idea to experiment with trail and loads. I've never used drum brakes, do you think they'll be able to handle the extra weight and momentum? Will common panniers fit on the oversized rear rails?

A couple of suggestions:

The front rack should have triangulated support from underneath.

Don't forget accommodations for fenders, they'll keep your loads clean.

Lengthen the chainstays to add stability

Alfine 8 instead of a three speed

Permalink Reply by Duppie on November 26, 2012 at 11:47am


The rack is mounted on the frame and not the front fork, so the fork can turn independent from the rack. Therefore you cannot have (much more) support from underneath anymore than you already have.

To me that is what sets a cycle truck apart from a sturdy fork-mounted front rack.


Kelvin Mulcky said:

[...]

A couple of suggestions:

The front rack should have triangulated support from underneath.

[...]
Permalink Reply by Lou Kuhn on November 26, 2012 at 12:18pm

Wow looks great, very creative.  Curious why such a long stem, that looks to have been welded to extend, rather than making a larger frame with a longer headtube and seat tube?

Permalink Reply by Legacy Frameworks on November 26, 2012 at 1:21pm

Thanks Everyone, 

Duppie - I meant to look at the Halsted Up close, but didn't get an opportunity. I was curious about the bike racks - I assumed that they would fit a bmx bike, but that will be further testing. 

It comes out to 35lb, which isn't bad carrying up stairs (same as about 42 cans of beer) - some people have no option. Many test to ensue. Have you done a practical (not listed) weight of the halsted?

Thanks for the kickstand link - if this seems inadequate that looks like a good way to go. 

Kevin -

I have heard great things about the drum brakes - they are used on a lot of other vehicles to stop much heavier loads. It seems to me the pads on these hubs are larger with a bigger surface area that rim or disc brakes. They also are probably the most dependable, because they are completely sealed.

My North Street Pannier fits on there well - I can also attach my pannier with the back to the top of the rack - keeping the weight centered, which is nice. Haven't tested others yet.

Indeed the rack is as low as possible - anything else to reenforce it would run into the tire. I went on the light side with this tubbing, so we will see how much I can get on there without worrying about bending and hitting the front tire/fender.

I need to score some miss matched fenders - a trip to working bikes should do the trick.

My frames all have pretty long chain stays and I wanted to keep this one as near to a normal bike length as possible.

Alfine 8 does not come with a drum brake - which I was going for, and the 3 is an economical choice considering the city is flat, and I'm not going to be racing with this thing - so low, lower and lowest gear is going to be my setup and we will see how it goes from there.

Lou - 

The "stem" and long seatpost are my experiment for making a small frame that will fit a big rider - so far I like how it rides - we will see how it translates to smaller riders. The "stem" is actually a one piece steerer tube from the fork, with a large spacer instead of a stack of small ones. I made the steerer of thicker material for the load it would be carrying and the extreme length.

Thanks Everyone for the tips, and keep them coming. I will be testing it out this winter - if you would like to check it out in person, get ahold of me and we can set something up.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on November 26, 2012 at 2:19pm

I would not put drum brakes on a bike intended to carry cargo, but that is just me.

I do not understand why you have as long a steerer as you do or why it is built with that much seat post showing plus that much seat tube over the top tube.  It looks like the bike is to small for the rider design wise.

The front rack could maybe benefit from more length and less width.

Racks that bolt on/off are actually, in my mind, a benefit as they can be removed if damaged or the bike has to be shipped or stored.

Permalink Reply by We all have an inner Beast... on November 27, 2012 at 1:41pm

Looks like an awesome bike !!! Knowing me, I would dress it up as a bull for Halloween !!!
I have to agree with DUG, for the bolt on racks.
Here is an idea...maybe you can weld the "pannier sides" to the "ladder" portion of the rack, and make the sides expandable to make it wider. I know it would require thicker tubing, and pins to "lock" it in at the wider position(s), but it would make it a bit multifunctional to carry wider items.
Plus, if you give it enough clearance, full sized panniers could be used in conjunction with the "multi-positional-width" rack....(maybe for pizza deliveries/pick-ups, and carrying the drinks in the side panniers, etc...)
Just an idea....

Permalink Reply by Duppie on November 28, 2012 at 3:00am

Levi,

Civia sells a pair of mismatched fenders.

http://www.outsideoutfitters.com/p-21947-civia-halsted-full-coverag...

Permalink Reply by william on November 28, 2012 at 3:22am
arent drum brakes often used on tandems? If they are reliable enough for the extra 100lbs+ of an extra human and avod over-heating like other brake systems, I imagine they will be fine slowly bringing home cat litter on a cargo truck.
Permalink Reply by Kevin Mulcky on November 28, 2012 at 3:48am

On tandems, a drum brake may be added to a special rear tandem hub and are used as an auxiliary brake, in addition to rim brakes. They're typically mounted only on the rear and are used as a "drag brake" on long descents. Totally different hub, brake purpose and situation.

I've never ridden a drum brake, so I can't say for sure. I'd think you'd want a brake with a lot of potential strength and excellent modulation.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on November 28, 2012 at 3:58am

Kelvin is correct when it comes to drum brakes on tandems.

I have drum brakes and they are no where near as good as discs.

Permalink Reply by Legacy Frameworks on November 28, 2012 at 4:29am

Sounds like we need a good ole-fashion Brake-off. We should get some utility bikes together, through some weight on them and compare all the braking feels, and steering while we are at it.

I haven't ridden a bike with discs, but I like the modulation of Drums, similar to cantis. Evidentially there is break in period where the pads and braking surface wear into each-other and increase the strength. 

FWIW The front is the extra large version, which in the catalog at least says "Extra large 90mm drum brake and high-flange hub shell for increased braking performance and wheel strength, suitable for cargo or utility bikes"

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