The Chainlink

Bikes on trains: Conductors perspective

Ive looked through a few of the topics on this matter and thought I'd give my 2c from a different viewpoint, that toolbag from the kingdom of jerk off, a Metra conductor. Have 15 years in and it was oh so nice for the first 9 not to have to deal with this but as we all know, that ended a few years back and the geniuses at Metra who came with the plan as usual half assed it and left us , the operating employee, holding the bag for it. While they are at home every weekend, they leave it to us to enforce the policy, rules and regs that go along with being able to bring bikes on board, a policy that  to this day many riders have zero clue about the proper way of doing. Of course the people who read this forum dont fall into this category at all, you are all respectful and abide by what the conductor says every time you ride Im sure. Bikes in general are a pain to have on the train, whether or not there is room for them. To this day, my estimate is that 60% of the people STILL get on without a way to secure their bike to the bottom rail like theyre supposed to, then want to fight with me about letting them ride anyway. Main reason we are such sticklers for this? If for some reason that bike is unsecured and something happens where the train moves suddenly, derails, goes through a crossover, etc and it breaks loose and hits little Tommy sitting with his Mom across the aisle and hurts him, management and Tommys Mom arent going to come after you the bike rider. Nope, theyre going to come after me, the conductor and first thing theyre going to ask / tell me is why didnt you make sure those bikes were tied down? Boom, Im out of a job when Tommys Mom sues and Im not putting my families future at risk because some doofus doesnt carry around a bungee or chain. Next, relinquishing your seat or being asked to leave the train when the train becomes too crowded IS a possibility and a risk you take when you bring your bike on board. Ive had so many arguments over this its not even funny. People seem to think once theyre on, thats it and they cant be asked to leave when we need the space. Sorry, but we can do that and Im not making a family of 5 stand up for 30 plus miles just so you can bring your bike on. Next up, reaching max capacity . Certain trains can take up to 15 bikes but we dont have to take that many. If the bikes that are on board are clogging the aisle making walking by them unsafe, Im going to cut off the bikes right there and no more will be allowed to board. So when you try to get on halfway down the line and I tell you we're full, its my decision and its final. I usually get the "cmon man you can take 1 more" stance and Im not going to compromise the safety of the other passengers no matter how much people beg and plead. Youve all seen how crowded those trains are especially on weekends, and when I have to move 4 people from their seats when you get on 1 stop out of Ogilve / Union so you can bring your bike on, its a pain, I dont like my job to be a pain, I like it to run smooth. Bikes in general cause the train not to run so smooth because of all the baggage that goes along with it. Just keep that in mind next time you think the conductor is being a jerk to some rider about their bike. NONE and I mean none of the conductors I know like having them on board m we are being forced to do it because some dopes at the top thought it would be a good idea and forced it on us without really creating a way to make it palatable for us and for you the rider. For that I dont fault you I fault them but they leave us to clean up the mess . Thanks for reading, Flame away.

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Permalink Reply by Rich S on July 12, 2013 at 12:17pm

I never got a response to the question of opening dark cars when the open ones approach/reach capacity. I personally don't think conductors close cars to make things difficult. But not opening cars to keep things easy for themselves is certainly a possibility.  

A few here have responded that they've experienced conductors choosing to deny someone boarding rather than open a car.  Not only is that bad customer service but it's bad business. Someone is trying to pay you for your service and you don't take their money. Can you imagine a restaurant not seating you at a table because the half of the restaurant they planned on using was full? They wouldn't because you have hundreds of restaurants to choose from. Metra has no competition so they can do what they want.  

h' 1.0 said:

I kind of lost the thread a bit here.. it seemed like multiple people were suggesting that Metra may purposely close cars just to make things hard for cyclists, and/or that there are situations when cars need to be opened but are dark.  Did the OP respond to that?

Permalink Reply by Dirke on July 12, 2013 at 12:26pm

You're still missing the point of the root problem.   Metra is run by people who were installed there by buddy politicos, and is operated primarily with other people's money.  They don't have to answer to anyone, apparently not even the RTA, and they don't need to make a profit, as they are not a business.

Rich S said:

I never got a response to the question of opening dark cars when the open ones approach/reach capacity. I personally don't think conductors close cars to make things difficult. But not opening cars to keep things easy for themselves is certainly a possibility.  

A few here have responded that they've experienced conductors choosing to deny someone boarding rather than open a car.  Not only is that bad customer service but it's bad business. Someone is trying to pay you for your service and you don't take their money. Can you imagine a restaurant not seating you at a table because the half of the restaurant they planned on using was full? They wouldn't because you have hundreds of restaurants to choose from. Metra has no competition so they can do what they want.  

h' 1.0 said:

I kind of lost the thread a bit here.. it seemed like multiple people were suggesting that Metra may purposely close cars just to make things hard for cyclists, and/or that there are situations when cars need to be opened but are dark.  Did the OP respond to that?

Permalink Reply by RobertW on July 12, 2013 at 12:46pm

Thanks for the real informative post!!  Before reading it, I thought the conductors were just difficult and unsympathetic to bike commuters.  And I found it very off-putting.  The few times I used Metra with a bike (UP-North line), I found the conductors to be very brusque and almost rude about accomodating bikes. Your post puts it all in more perspective.  I still think it would be nice if the average conductor could at least enforce the rules in a matter-of-fact way without being unpleasant about it.  But I now understand why the conductors would be strict and concerned about ensuring bikes are secured, etc.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on July 12, 2013 at 1:20pm

Looking for a response from Steve, thanks.

Permalink Reply by Bez on July 12, 2013 at 2:07pm

Aren't Metra employees union? 

Not to open a "unions are bad/good"  discussion, just pointing out that it can be easier for less desirable employees to hide in union shops (my brother - in - law is a carpenter, says this happens all the time in construction trades, which are union). 

h' 1.0 said:

If management tells a paid employee that they're resonsible for implementing something new, and doing their part to help it go smoothly while keeping curtomer satisfaction in mind, then the paid employee has a choice of carrying out management's wishes, or finding another job.  They can certainly walk around bitching about it, and do their part to subtly sabotage it, and complain about their employer on public message boards, but in most professions they'd be on track to be terminated after not too long.

What speaks most poorly about Metra management here is that employees are basically allowed to drag their obvious disgruntlement around and flaunt it for the world to see and there doesn't seem to be a process for correcting that.



James Liu said:

Those trains get plenty crowded by about Brookfield, but never so I've been asked to take my bike off. I really doubt that unforeseeable spikes in passenger traffic happen all that often. And if they're foreseeable, they should really be management's problem. Not the conductors', not the passengers'.

Permalink Reply by JeffB on July 12, 2013 at 2:11pm

+1

h' 1.0 said:

If management tells a paid employee that they're resonsible for implementing something new, and doing their part to help it go smoothly while keeping curtomer satisfaction in mind, then the paid employee has a choice of carrying out management's wishes, or finding another job.  They can certainly walk around bitching about it, and do their part to subtly sabotage it, and complain about their employer on public message boards, but in most professions they'd be on track to be terminated after not too long.

What speaks most poorly about Metra management here is that employees are basically allowed to drag their obvious disgruntlement around and flaunt it for the world to see and there doesn't seem to be a process for correcting that.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on July 12, 2013 at 2:29pm



Rich S said:

I never got a response to the question of opening dark cars when the open ones approach/reach capacity. I personally don't think conductors close cars to make things difficult. But not opening cars to keep things easy for themselves is certainly a possibility.  

A few here have responded that they've experienced conductors choosing to deny someone boarding rather than open a car.  Not only is that bad customer service but it's bad business. Someone is trying to pay you for your service and you don't take their money. Can you imagine a restaurant not seating you at a table because the half of the restaurant they planned on using was full? They wouldn't because you have hundreds of restaurants to choose from. Metra has no competition so they can do what they want.  

h' 1.0 said:

I kind of lost the thread a bit here.. it seemed like multiple people were suggesting that Metra may purposely close cars just to make things hard for cyclists, and/or that there are situations when cars need to be opened but are dark.  Did the OP respond to that?

Permalink Reply by Jeremy Mendelson on July 12, 2013 at 3:15pm

Bikes on crowded trains is not a new issue. It's the same on all the busy commuter/regional railroads: MBTA, SEPTA, LIRR, NJTransit, Metro-North and others. A few still do not permit bikes ever, notably the South Shore Line.

The real problem is that ridership is increasing as is the number of people traveling with bikes. Not rocket science here. Bicycling is a mode of transportation -- let me repeat, mode of transportation -- not just a hobby where if I can't take my bike, oh well I guess I'll go next time. And it needs to be accommodated at all times, period, rather than the lazy solution of "okay, I guess if there's a little extra unused room, but only then".  (If this sounds familiar, it's sort of the same BS we hear from the city about "if there's room" for bike lanes and parking cars cannot give anything up.)

While I appreciate the perspective of the conductor's issues, remember that we are talking about trains that are by definition infrequent services. Unlike the CTA, there will not be another train in 10 minutes, so basically, you're completely fucked if you can't get on. And getting kicked off at some middle-of-nowhere station you've never been to is not just an inconvenience, it can very easily mean ruining your day and even losing your job. I have a hard time with the idea that, even if they take up more space, a bicyclist is not as important as any other passenger. Is someone with a giant electric wheelchair less important than a small child??  What's an equitable way to decide who to kick off?

We have to make room. As someone who studies transit planning and operations, I've seen and heard about several ways to alleviate these capacity problems, some easier, cheaper or more effective than others:

1. Remove seats.  Nothing increases capacity more quickly and inexpensively than ripping out a bunch of seats to create standing room or space of wheelchairs, bikes or large objects. 

2. Create designated spaces for bikes and other large objects. Boston's MBTA removed all seats from one side of a few cars and replaced them with bike racks. They only run these cars on certain trains but the progam should be expanded so that every train set can have a bike car.

3. Charge a fare for bikes and large objects. That would minimize the number of bikes as people who don't really need their bike wouldn't bring it, and create a fund for bike-related improvements. Perhaps an additional half-fare up (max $5) is reasonable? I don't know of any public regional rail provider doing this but virtually all private intercity/regional carriers and Amtrak charge $5 to $10 extra for bike or oversized/additional luggage. Metro-North and LIRR charge a nominal $5 for a lifetime permit, not really a fare but it's meant to ensure that everyone knows the rules.  [Of course I'm sensitive to the equity (low-income hardship) argument with any additional fee.]

4. Put Divvy stations at every major urban Metra station and promote the heck out of it.

5. Add secure parking to stations so people could leave a bike at one end, not needing to carrying it with you every day just so it doesn't get stolen.

6. Partner with CTA, Pace, Kenosha Transit and any other local bus systems to provide combo tickets/passes and coordinate schedules, possibly reducing the need for people to bring bikes.

7. Changing the fare system to off-board payment like Toronto's GO Transit (and most North American light rail systems) would eliminate the need for conductors to collect fares every trip, increase revenue and make it easy to open additional cars as needed.

8. Raising all platforms to accommodate automatic doors would eliminate the need for a conductor in every car at every stop, thus more cars can be open. This is standard practice on Metro-North which carries full trains every 20-60 minutes on weekends. Also, level boarding is faster and much safer than carrying a loaded bike up/down those awful steps.

9. Inform people of alternatives. If you can't fit your bike you should be left stranded. Are there other lines within biking distance? Are there local bus options? Make signs with schedules and contact info and put them online also. Real-time info at stations would be a big plus so you know right away if you can't get on.

10. Eliminate blackout dates and times by providing alternative transportation. Bike shuttles* should be provided during rush hours and whenever bikes are banned from trains. Nobody should ever be told they can't work on a particular day because the train is crowded. The side effect of this is it would be harder to ban bikes because they would have to spend money on shuttles.

11. Implement rules that make sense, inform your passengers (signs!), and provide any necessary tools. You can't get mad at bicyclists for not carrying a bungee cord because that's a ridiculous requirement shared by no other transit agency.

12. More generally, stop viewing passengers and their stuff as annoyances.  Large large transit agencies seem to regard their role as "dealing with" passengers instead of "helping move" them from A to B. Think about "how can we help people traveling with bikes?" instead of "how do we handle all these damn bikes?"

* One of the most well known bike shuttles is the Caltrans shuttle between Oakland and San Francisco when BART prohibits bikes in rush hours. Every user feels the same way: it quickly reaches capacity, runs infrequently and gets stuck in car traffic, but at least it exists. And it should be expanded and replicated in every big city where long distances or river crossings make biking otherwise difficult or impossible, or where/when major transit lines prohibit bikes. This doesn't impact Chicago so much but means a lot in other cities: New York, Boston, SF, Washington and others.

Other suggestions??

Permalink Reply by Steve Cohen on July 12, 2013 at 3:43pm

I was one of those who once got into a tiff with a conductor over this several years ago.  However, I don't think I deserve all the blame.  I just heard from a friend that you could take bikes on Metra.  Nothing was said about the bungee cord rule.  Of course I COULD have looked this up online, but I'm not sure I'd admit that I SHOULD have known to do that.   Poor publiclity, poorly conceived plan, etc.  Some people are just going to get the word by rumor.  They should post signs in the stations, I suppose.  But they probably don't want to do that because they'd get too many bikes that way.  Back to "poorly conceived plan".

Permalink Reply by Steve Cohen on July 12, 2013 at 3:47pm

Oh, please, Zidaane.  What planet are you living on?  Plenty of people don't like their jobs, but have no choice if they want to make a living.

Zidaane said:

You either like your job or you don't. If you find yourself continually annoyed by your management, your customers or any type of change, then you might need to seek some other occupation.

The majority of conductors I've dealt with seem really happy with the job. 

Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on July 12, 2013 at 4:00pm

I would like to say that while the METRA bikes-on-trains policy is a heck of a lot better than it was years ago, it is still woefully inadequate. There are other parts of the US that have cycle-friendly rail transit; in Europe it's even more common to have dedicated bike facilities on trains. I look forward to the day when bikes on METRA will be a common and accepted thing; I am not, however, holding my breath!

But... there *is* another way. METRA policy permits folding bikes *in bags* to be carried on any train, at any time. The rationale is that a folded and bagged bike is "baggage"; as we've seen, all kinds of suitcases are carried on these trains with no limitations.

I've been commuting into Chicago with a folder for over 11 years and have literally never had a problem with access. We're in "The Taste" season, where bikes are blocked out (in both directions... what up with that?), yet I came in this morning (and every morning this week) without any problems. I have also never been asked to get off a train because too many additional riders boarded.

For the guy who suggested a separate fare for bike and rider, I'd agree *if* my bike took up an extra spot. It doesn't. There is almost always a place to stash the bike without occupying an additional seat. The almost worst-case scenario is sitting in the "jump" seats with the folded bike held in front of my knees, just clearing the aisle. The actual worst-case scenario is standing in the vestibule with the bike. Neither of these is that much of a hardship, but they only happen occasionally.

All this doesn't mean that METRA shouldn't eventually come up with a better bike policy. However, that probably won't happen until bike ridership demands get more consistent and numerous. They won't want to pull a car with one or two bikes on it. Meanwhile, "Life is Unfolding!"

Steve

EDIT: I also want to add that virtually *all* the conductors on my line (North Central Service) are friendly and accommodating to me and my bike. I have never in 11 years been inconvenienced by METRA personnel. For my part, I try always to be polite and considerate of the conductors and other commuters... it's a two-way street.

Permalink Reply by Steve Cohen on July 12, 2013 at 4:19pm

any union that let a member get fired for a dispute over enforcing poorly designed rules with a customer would not be doing its job.  Yeah, I don't appreciate some of their attitudes toward cyclists but this is a management problem.  I want Metra to fix this, not to fire conductors.

Dann B (5.25 mi/8.75 mi) said:

Aren't Metra employees union? 

Not to open a "unions are bad/good"  discussion, just pointing out that it can be easier for less desirable employees to hide in union shops (my brother - in - law is a carpenter, says this happens all the time in construction trades, which are union). 

h' 1.0 said:

If management tells a paid employee that they're resonsible for implementing something new, and doing their part to help it go smoothly while keeping curtomer satisfaction in mind, then the paid employee has a choice of carrying out management's wishes, or finding another job.  They can certainly walk around bitching about it, and do their part to subtly sabotage it, and complain about their employer on public message boards, but in most professions they'd be on track to be terminated after not too long.

What speaks most poorly about Metra management here is that employees are basically allowed to drag their obvious disgruntlement around and flaunt it for the world to see and there doesn't seem to be a process for correcting that.



James Liu said:

Those trains get plenty crowded by about Brookfield, but never so I've been asked to take my bike off. I really doubt that unforeseeable spikes in passenger traffic happen all that often. And if they're foreseeable, they should really be management's problem. Not the conductors', not the passengers'.

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