Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on March 17, 2014 at 2:27pm

Oh boy! Can we expect a comparable magnitude of questionnaire bias in the "next step?"

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

Julie Hochstadter said:

What's the deadline?

Julie,

There is none. The sooner we get the results the better though because we will be able to go to the next step. However, fill it out whenever you can!

Thanks! 

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Permalink Reply by David Altenburg on March 17, 2014 at 2:54pm

I'm pretty sure that no one understands the importance of wearing helmets better than you do.

That's right. People who don't ride bikes very often mistakenly believe they're the most important way to make cyclists safe.

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Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 17, 2014 at 3:29pm

I understand where you're coming from but take into account that the Brain Injury Association is a NON-PROFIT organization so they support this cause because they have knowledge and facts that head injuries are very serious injuries, and wearing helmets might help prevent it. As an organization, they deal with bicycle-related accidents' victims on a daily basis; plus, it has been proven that helmets can reduce the likelihood of a head injury. So yes, the goal of the campaign is to encourage bicyclists to wear helmets but also, our goal is to actually EDUCATE people because oftentimes they don't understand what falls under the "brain injury" umbrella. You might fall off the bike, get up and go home thinking you are OK because your head doesn't hurt or because you did not lose consciousness. What people do not realize is that the injury might have already occurred and the symptoms might develop over hours or days. When it comes to your last sentence, actually falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries.

Nick G said:

You're fighting the wrong battle.  By advocating the "helmet safety" position you're missing the broader picture (and helping the helmet companies sell more product based on fear).  Fix the infrastructure, fix the education (of both cyclists and drivers), and help to bring cycling back from the fringe as a viable, normal transportation option, and you eliminate or vastly reduce the need for helmets.  It's used by many people all the time, but look at the cyclists in Copenhagen.  Very few people in Copenhagen wear helmets while riding bikes.  Statistically, I have a better chance of having a severe head injury in an auto accident than I do on a bike.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

Nick G said:

Too many safety surveys!

It means that people care :)

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Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 17, 2014 at 3:36pm

No, helmets are not the most important way to make cyclists safe. No one is saying that once you have a helmet on you can do whatever you want because it will save your life- however, it might, so you should not underestimate the importance of it because serious head injuries often lead to death. 

 
David Altenburg said:

I'm pretty sure that no one understands the importance of wearing helmets better than you do.

That's right. People who don't ride bikes very often mistakenly believe they're the most important way to make cyclists safe.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 17, 2014 at 4:18pm

And having a limb cut off, your neck broken, your abdomen crushed or just about any serious injury can also death.  By thinking wearing a helmet is doing anything to improve safety on the road for cyclists you might as well just follow that logic and put everyone a bubble wrap suit before they get on a bike because of all the things that can kill them if they get hit by a 3,000 pound car.

Listen, it's great you want to save our heads and all but if you really want to see a reduction in bicycle related head injuries get to work on the root cause of them; the prevailing idea that bikes are toys not meant to be on the road.  Simply working to make the world a more friendly place to ride a bike would do wonders and, overall, save way more lives than wrapping every cyclist out there in bubble wrap. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

No, helmets are not the most important way to make cyclists safe. No one is saying that once you have a helmet on you can do whatever you want because it will save your life- however, it might, so you should not underestimate the importance of it because serious head injuries often lead to death. 

 
David Altenburg said:

I'm pretty sure that no one understands the importance of wearing helmets better than you do.

That's right. People who don't ride bikes very often mistakenly believe they're the most important way to make cyclists safe.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 17, 2014 at 4:28pm

I'm actually quite shocked by your response. Obviously there are so many different issues that should be addressed to make biking safer but I will say that again, THIS IS A SPECIFIC CAMPAIGN FOR A SPECIFIC CAUSE, which I didn't pick by the way. And yes, it has been proven that wearing helmets can reduce the likelihood of a brain injury so if you lack this knowledge, you should be excited about this campaign because one of our goals is to actually EDUCATE people who think that helmets don't do anything. 

notoriousDUG said:

And having a limb cut off, your neck broken, your abdomen crushed or just about any serious injury can also death.  By thinking wearing a helmet is doing anything to improve safety on the road for cyclists you might as well just follow that logic and put everyone a bubble wrap suit before they get on a bike because of all the things that can kill them if they get hit by a 3,000 pound car.

Listen, it's great you want to save our heads and all but if you really want to see a reduction in bicycle related head injuries get to work on the root cause of them; the prevailing idea that bikes are toys not meant to be on the road.  Simply working to make the world a more friendly place to ride a bike would do wonders and, overall, save way more lives than wrapping every cyclist out there in bubble wrap. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

No, helmets are not the most important way to make cyclists safe. No one is saying that once you have a helmet on you can do whatever you want because it will save your life- however, it might, so you should not underestimate the importance of it because serious head injuries often lead to death. 

 
David Altenburg said:

I'm pretty sure that no one understands the importance of wearing helmets better than you do.

That's right. People who don't ride bikes very often mistakenly believe they're the most important way to make cyclists safe.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 17, 2014 at 4:38pm

MY goal is to have there be more people on bikes and. believe it or not, making biking sound more dangerous is not helpful to that.

Getting people to wear helmets more is not a bad idea; I just dislike pushing the concept that cycling is wicked dangerous so you need to wear helmets vs. working on making it safer to ride a bike in general.  I know lots and lots of people who have been in bad bike wrecks with, and without, helmets on and most of them had severe injuries that had nothing to do with their head.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

I'm actually quite shocked by your response. Obviously there are so many different issues that should be addressed to make biking safer but I will say that again, THIS IS A SPECIFIC CAMPAIGN FOR A SPECIFIC CAUSE, which I didn't pick by the way. And yes, it has been proven that wearing helmets can reduce the likelihood of a brain injury so if you lack this knowledge, you should be excited about this campaign because one of our goals is to actually EDUCATE people who think that helmets don't do anything. 

notoriousDUG said:

And having a limb cut off, your neck broken, your abdomen crushed or just about any serious injury can also death.  By thinking wearing a helmet is doing anything to improve safety on the road for cyclists you might as well just follow that logic and put everyone a bubble wrap suit before they get on a bike because of all the things that can kill them if they get hit by a 3,000 pound car.

Listen, it's great you want to save our heads and all but if you really want to see a reduction in bicycle related head injuries get to work on the root cause of them; the prevailing idea that bikes are toys not meant to be on the road.  Simply working to make the world a more friendly place to ride a bike would do wonders and, overall, save way more lives than wrapping every cyclist out there in bubble wrap. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

No, helmets are not the most important way to make cyclists safe. No one is saying that once you have a helmet on you can do whatever you want because it will save your life- however, it might, so you should not underestimate the importance of it because serious head injuries often lead to death. 

 
David Altenburg said:

I'm pretty sure that no one understands the importance of wearing helmets better than you do.

That's right. People who don't ride bikes very often mistakenly believe they're the most important way to make cyclists safe.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 17, 2014 at 4:50pm

By encouraging people to wear helmets we do not try to convince them that riding is dangerous but we are trying to raise awareness that brain injuries are a serious problem, and wearing helmets can really help. Falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries so I think it really makes sense. Do not read too much into it, we are not against biking- we just want to show people that something simple as a bike helmet can really be a gamechanger. There are so many different factors bicyclists can't control while riding so why not control what you can- that's the idea.

notoriousDUG said:

MY goal is to have there be more people on bikes and. believe it or not, making biking sound more dangerous is not helpful to that.

Getting people to wear helmets more is not a bad idea; I just dislike pushing the concept that cycling is wicked dangerous so you need to wear helmets vs. working on making it safer to ride a bike in general.  I know lots and lots of people who have been in bad bike wrecks with, and without, helmets on and most of them had severe injuries that had nothing to do with their head.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

I'm actually quite shocked by your response. Obviously there are so many different issues that should be addressed to make biking safer but I will say that again, THIS IS A SPECIFIC CAMPAIGN FOR A SPECIFIC CAUSE, which I didn't pick by the way. And yes, it has been proven that wearing helmets can reduce the likelihood of a brain injury so if you lack this knowledge, you should be excited about this campaign because one of our goals is to actually EDUCATE people who think that helmets don't do anything. 

notoriousDUG said:

And having a limb cut off, your neck broken, your abdomen crushed or just about any serious injury can also death.  By thinking wearing a helmet is doing anything to improve safety on the road for cyclists you might as well just follow that logic and put everyone a bubble wrap suit before they get on a bike because of all the things that can kill them if they get hit by a 3,000 pound car.

Listen, it's great you want to save our heads and all but if you really want to see a reduction in bicycle related head injuries get to work on the root cause of them; the prevailing idea that bikes are toys not meant to be on the road.  Simply working to make the world a more friendly place to ride a bike would do wonders and, overall, save way more lives than wrapping every cyclist out there in bubble wrap. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

No, helmets are not the most important way to make cyclists safe. No one is saying that once you have a helmet on you can do whatever you want because it will save your life- however, it might, so you should not underestimate the importance of it because serious head injuries often lead to death. 

 
David Altenburg said:

I'm pretty sure that no one understands the importance of wearing helmets better than you do.

That's right. People who don't ride bikes very often mistakenly believe they're the most important way to make cyclists safe.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Gecko on March 18, 2014 at 2:14am

The problem is that by attaching the thought "you should be wearing a helmet" to an activity, whether it's biking or walking or driving, you are implicitly saying that this particular activity is inherently unsafe, i.e. dangerous.  This is a bigger problem than you realize, because the majority of people FEAR dangerous activities (or what they're TOLD are dangerous activities) and that makes them less likely to engage in said activity, whether there's a tangible risk or not.  I (and I think Dug too) would like to see many more people on bikes, and to see bikes regain an equal footing with all other forms of transportation, and fear does nothing to help, and actually is completely contrary to this goal.  The answer is not protecting people who have to deal with the nation's crappy bike infrastructure, the answer is creating BETTER infrastructure so cyclists can feel more safe while getting where they need to go.  Yes, helmets can help head injuries; no one here is so dense that they can't see that.  We are simply past the helmet discussion already, and we need to focus on infrastructure improvements to help ordinary people see that cycling is NOT dangerous and that it CAN be a legitimate form of transportation.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

By encouraging people to wear helmets we do not try to convince them that riding is dangerous but we are trying to raise awareness that brain injuries are a serious problem, and wearing helmets can really help. Falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries so I think it really makes sense. Do not read too much into it, we are not against biking- we just want to show people that something simple as a bike helmet can really be a gamechanger. There are so many different factors bicyclists can't control while riding so why not control what you can- that's the idea.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 18, 2014 at 2:30am

It is really difficult for me to understand your logic in that case but I don't have to. But I disagree- if everyone followed your logic, no one would drive since they have to buckle up because it is the law- everyone would have thought that driving is so dangerous since they need to have seat belts on. And yes biking in the city can be dangerous because there are so many external factors you can't control even when the infrastructure and other things you talk about are fixed. Plus you might just fall off the bike and it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. If you are past the helmet discussion then I don't understand why this discussion is happening. You might be past it but the numbers and stats don't lie and that is why the Brain Injury Association realized that there is a need for such campaign. They didn't come up with it because they got bored, they see how many victims suffer just because they didn't have a helmet on. Plus the BIA has nothing to do with infrastructure so I don't understand why you still keep telling me about the infrastructure improvements. And also, as I've mentioned, if you think that fixed infrastructure is all you need to keep you safe, then I don't know what to say.

Nick G said:

The problem is that by attaching the thought "you should be wearing a helmet" to an activity, whether it's biking or walking or driving, you are implicitly saying that this particular activity is inherently unsafe, i.e. dangerous.  This is a bigger problem than you realize, because the majority of people FEAR dangerous activities (or what they're TOLD are dangerous activities) and that makes them less likely to engage in said activity, whether there's a tangible risk or not.  I (and I think Dug too) would like to see many more people on bikes, and to see bikes regain an equal footing with all other forms of transportation, and fear does nothing to help, and actually is completely contrary to this goal.  The answer is not protecting people who have to deal with the nation's crappy bike infrastructure, the answer is creating BETTER infrastructure so cyclists can feel more safe while getting where they need to go.  Yes, helmets can help head injuries; no one here is so dense that they can't see that.  We are simply past the helmet discussion already, and we need to focus on infrastructure improvements to help ordinary people see that cycling is NOT dangerous and that it CAN be a legitimate form of transportation.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

By encouraging people to wear helmets we do not try to convince them that riding is dangerous but we are trying to raise awareness that brain injuries are a serious problem, and wearing helmets can really help. Falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries so I think it really makes sense. Do not read too much into it, we are not against biking- we just want to show people that something simple as a bike helmet can really be a gamechanger. There are so many different factors bicyclists can't control while riding so why not control what you can- that's the idea.

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Permalink Reply by Aleks Gornisiewicz on March 18, 2014 at 2:35am

AND last but not least, the goal of our campaign is to encourage people to wear helmets not only when they bike in the city, but when they ride in the park or around the house or wherever. The idea is to wear a helmet regardless of where you bike. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

It is really difficult for me to understand your logic in that case but I don't have to. But I disagree- if everyone followed your logic, no one would drive since they have to buckle up because it is the law- everyone would have thought that driving is so dangerous since they need to have seat belts on. And yes biking in the city can be dangerous because there are so many external factors you can't control even when the infrastructure and other things you talk about are fixed. Plus you might just fall off the bike and it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. If you are past the helmet discussion then I don't understand why this discussion is happening. You might be past it but the numbers and stats don't lie and that is why the Brain Injury Association realized that there is a need for such campaign. They didn't come up with it because they got bored, they see how many victims suffer just because they didn't have a helmet on. Plus the BIA has nothing to do with infrastructure so I don't understand why you still keep telling me about the infrastructure improvements. And also, as I've mentioned, if you think that fixed infrastructure is all you need to keep you safe, then I don't know what to say.

Nick G said:

The problem is that by attaching the thought "you should be wearing a helmet" to an activity, whether it's biking or walking or driving, you are implicitly saying that this particular activity is inherently unsafe, i.e. dangerous.  This is a bigger problem than you realize, because the majority of people FEAR dangerous activities (or what they're TOLD are dangerous activities) and that makes them less likely to engage in said activity, whether there's a tangible risk or not.  I (and I think Dug too) would like to see many more people on bikes, and to see bikes regain an equal footing with all other forms of transportation, and fear does nothing to help, and actually is completely contrary to this goal.  The answer is not protecting people who have to deal with the nation's crappy bike infrastructure, the answer is creating BETTER infrastructure so cyclists can feel more safe while getting where they need to go.  Yes, helmets can help head injuries; no one here is so dense that they can't see that.  We are simply past the helmet discussion already, and we need to focus on infrastructure improvements to help ordinary people see that cycling is NOT dangerous and that it CAN be a legitimate form of transportation.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

By encouraging people to wear helmets we do not try to convince them that riding is dangerous but we are trying to raise awareness that brain injuries are a serious problem, and wearing helmets can really help. Falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries so I think it really makes sense. Do not read too much into it, we are not against biking- we just want to show people that something simple as a bike helmet can really be a gamechanger. There are so many different factors bicyclists can't control while riding so why not control what you can- that's the idea.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 18, 2014 at 3:21am

What are those numbers?

What is the percentage of people who suffer debilitating brain injuries from bicycle crashes?

Driving a car is thought of as a safe activity even though the numbers say you have a pretty good chance of being injured in a car over your lifetime.  This has to do with how society perceives a presents driving a car.  In fact your argument here is kind of proof of what I am saying; people drive cars all the time even though it is statistically pretty dangerous,  There are tons of laws requiring us to wear safety equipment when we drive, or that cars have to be FULL of safety equipment designed to help us survive in them.  This is because, over all, in our culture cars are perceived as 'safe.'

The flip side is that  bikes, while fairly safe on their own, are perceived as dangerous and things like pushing helmets as required to be safe on a bike only reinforce that issue and keeps people scared of riding.

The worst head injury I ever received was in a car, I know other people who have had pretty bad head injuries in car wrecks as well.  Are you going to be pushing to educate people that they should wear helmets in their car as well?  I am sure that percentage wise there are fewer traumatic head injuries in car accidents because people get to be in their nice little safety cage but I bet just basic numbers you would be preventing more injuries by pushing ot have everyone who drives wear a helmet.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

AND last but not least, the goal of our campaign is to encourage people to wear helmets not only when they bike in the city, but when they ride in the park or around the house or wherever. The idea is to wear a helmet regardless of where you bike. 

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

It is really difficult for me to understand your logic in that case but I don't have to. But I disagree- if everyone followed your logic, no one would drive since they have to buckle up because it is the law- everyone would have thought that driving is so dangerous since they need to have seat belts on. And yes biking in the city can be dangerous because there are so many external factors you can't control even when the infrastructure and other things you talk about are fixed. Plus you might just fall off the bike and it doesn't have to be anyone's fault. If you are past the helmet discussion then I don't understand why this discussion is happening. You might be past it but the numbers and stats don't lie and that is why the Brain Injury Association realized that there is a need for such campaign. They didn't come up with it because they got bored, they see how many victims suffer just because they didn't have a helmet on. Plus the BIA has nothing to do with infrastructure so I don't understand why you still keep telling me about the infrastructure improvements. And also, as I've mentioned, if you think that fixed infrastructure is all you need to keep you safe, then I don't know what to say.

Nick G said:

The problem is that by attaching the thought "you should be wearing a helmet" to an activity, whether it's biking or walking or driving, you are implicitly saying that this particular activity is inherently unsafe, i.e. dangerous.  This is a bigger problem than you realize, because the majority of people FEAR dangerous activities (or what they're TOLD are dangerous activities) and that makes them less likely to engage in said activity, whether there's a tangible risk or not.  I (and I think Dug too) would like to see many more people on bikes, and to see bikes regain an equal footing with all other forms of transportation, and fear does nothing to help, and actually is completely contrary to this goal.  The answer is not protecting people who have to deal with the nation's crappy bike infrastructure, the answer is creating BETTER infrastructure so cyclists can feel more safe while getting where they need to go.  Yes, helmets can help head injuries; no one here is so dense that they can't see that.  We are simply past the helmet discussion already, and we need to focus on infrastructure improvements to help ordinary people see that cycling is NOT dangerous and that it CAN be a legitimate form of transportation.

Aleks Gornisiewicz said:

By encouraging people to wear helmets we do not try to convince them that riding is dangerous but we are trying to raise awareness that brain injuries are a serious problem, and wearing helmets can really help. Falls and motor-vehicle traffic injuries are the leading cause of brain injuries so I think it really makes sense. Do not read too much into it, we are not against biking- we just want to show people that something simple as a bike helmet can really be a gamechanger. There are so many different factors bicyclists can't control while riding so why not control what you can- that's the idea.

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