Bait Bikes: Clever Theft-Deterrent or Entrapment?

Hey Ya'll,

Searched the forum and didn't find this one posted (sorry if it was and I missed it):

http://www.good.is/post/bait-bikes-clever-theft-deterrent-or-entrap...

An interesting idea.  I take the legal notion of entrapment pretty seriously as a social justice issue, and don't support this strategy as a widespread tactic.  But it does seem to hold some promise for the biking community in cases where there are clear patterns of bike theft.  When my bike was stolen a couple of months ago, the method, neighborhood, and time of day all fit similar thefts over the past several months.  Plus, the GPS system described in the article has led to unearthing warehouses of stolen bikes. 

But authorities baiting the desperate, and often those most impacted by socioeconomic inequality, is a very slippery slope indeed.  What do you think?

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Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on July 9, 2010 at 7:45am
I put a box of books on my curb yesterday because I'm perfectly aware that other people are perfectly aware they're free to take the ones they want. By your logic they're stealing and participating in a social dynamic worth comparison to slavery? Godwin might need to pass a new law.

Again, truly anyone outraged that they can't safely leave their property literally unattended is either truly not cut out for life in a town this big or is just plain stupid. And the cops should have better things to do than catch out people taking such property. This reminds me of the ridiculously stupid NYPD stings where they would drop wallets in the subways and then arrest people who picked them up—never mind that those people really had every right to do so, or even that they were probably just picking them up with the intention of finding their owners.

Bob Kastigar said:
Dr. Doom said:

If my neighbor sets out a snazzy hi-fi setup on the curb and I take it, am I stealing?
Yes, you are stealing.
I've lived in large cities my whole life and there's always been a social consensus that legitimately untended property is up for grabs. That social consensus is wrong - it encourages theft.

If it isn't yours you shouldn't take it unless someone has specifically given it to you are marked it as "free gift".

"Social consensus" accepted slavery at one time too.

.

Permalink Reply by igz on July 9, 2010 at 7:59am
an unlocked bike on someone's porch...off limits (tho very prone to theft)

an unlocked bike along a curb...free for the taking.

its quite simple really

Dr. Doom said:
I put a box of books on my curb yesterday because I'm perfectly aware that other people are perfectly aware they're free to take the ones they want. By your logic they're stealing and participating in a social dynamic worth comparison to slavery? Godwin might need to pass a new law.

Again, truly anyone outraged that they can't safely leave their property literally unattended is either truly not cut out for life in a town this big or is just plain stupid. And the cops should have better things to do than catch out people taking such property. This reminds me of the ridiculously stupid NYPD stings where they would drop wallets in the subways and then arrest people who picked them up—never mind that those people really had every right to do so, or even that they were probably just picking them up with the intention of finding their owners.

Bob Kastigar said:
Dr. Doom said:

If my neighbor sets out a snazzy hi-fi setup on the curb and I take it, am I stealing?
Yes, you are stealing.
I've lived in large cities my whole life and there's always been a social consensus that legitimately untended property is up for grabs. That social consensus is wrong - it encourages theft.

If it isn't yours you shouldn't take it unless someone has specifically given it to you are marked it as "free gift".

"Social consensus" accepted slavery at one time too.

.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on July 9, 2010 at 8:06am
yep.

You leave it unattended in a public place you may as well give it away.

iggi said:
an unlocked bike on someone's porch...off limits (tho very prone to theft)

an unlocked bike along a curb...free for the taking.

its quite simple really

Dr. Doom said:
I put a box of books on my curb yesterday because I'm perfectly aware that other people are perfectly aware they're free to take the ones they want. By your logic they're stealing and participating in a social dynamic worth comparison to slavery? Godwin might need to pass a new law.

Again, truly anyone outraged that they can't safely leave their property literally unattended is either truly not cut out for life in a town this big or is just plain stupid. And the cops should have better things to do than catch out people taking such property. This reminds me of the ridiculously stupid NYPD stings where they would drop wallets in the subways and then arrest people who picked them up—never mind that those people really had every right to do so, or even that they were probably just picking them up with the intention of finding their owners.

Bob Kastigar said:
Dr. Doom said:

If my neighbor sets out a snazzy hi-fi setup on the curb and I take it, am I stealing?
Yes, you are stealing.
I've lived in large cities my whole life and there's always been a social consensus that legitimately untended property is up for grabs. That social consensus is wrong - it encourages theft.

If it isn't yours you shouldn't take it unless someone has specifically given it to you are marked it as "free gift".

"Social consensus" accepted slavery at one time too.

.

Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on July 9, 2010 at 8:08am
Doom is right. Dropping a wallet and arresting someone is entrapment. More over it isn't always a crime to pick up a wallet or anything dropped by someone. First because you cannot prove the intent of the actor picking up the item and secondly State property laws vary. This also means that it is not necessarily a crime to pick up a bike that isn't yours if it is unlocked and seems abandoned. Property ownership has some grey areas when we are talking about abandoned and salvage property and each State defines this differently.

Check out IL ST CH 765 § 1020/0.01 - 36
Permalink Reply by Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! on July 9, 2010 at 8:10am
Cutifly, I agree. That's why I am not a lawyer. ; ) Regarding cases specifically regarding theft. I don't know of any off hand. I am sure they exist but if they are not well known or taken to a federal level they tend not to be precedent setting cases and thus are not really applicable in every case like the three I cited.

cutifly said:
I briefly read over the first page of Wiki, I did not really see anything relating to theft or stolen property, Just child porn and narcotics. Is there anything else you may be aware (in regards to the court) in direct relation to theft or stolen property ? I do so much enjoy reading about these court cases and thank you for the time to look this up... I would hate myself if I had to put myself through law school when I despise so many things in society and would just rather enjoy my life...
Spencer "Thunderball" Thayer! said:
And no this isn't entrapment.
A defense attorney can only use Entrapment as a defense against a criminal charge if law enforcement agents attempted to force or convince the defendant to commit an offense which the defendant would otherwise have not have committed. Woo Wai v. United States, 223 F.1d 412 (9th Cir. 1915), Sorrells v. United States, 287 U.S. 435 (1932) and Jacobson v. United States, 503 U.S. 540 (1992).
Permalink Reply by Liam on July 9, 2010 at 8:34am
Another possible solution...

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/16/man-makes-cellphone.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-End-Bike-Theft-The-Honeybike...

The legality of this is questionable as anyone injured from a booby trapped bike could likely sue its owner, but the results are still hilarious! For tech-minded and electronics savvy individuals out there, this might be the ticket:)
Permalink Reply by Davo on July 9, 2010 at 8:48am
Would taking my brakes off be conciderd booby trapping?
Permalink Reply by igz on July 9, 2010 at 8:49am
no, thats hipstering your bike

Davo said:
Would taking my brakes off be conciderd booby trapping?
Permalink Reply by igz on July 9, 2010 at 8:50am
but you do suggest a great idea...

keep the brakes on there, just detach the cable. and then lets watch them take off on the bike.

Davo said:
Would taking my brakes off be conciderd booby trapping?
Permalink Reply by XV on July 9, 2010 at 8:52am
I was thinking about a similar setup except spraying mace at the thief from the handlebars.

Liam said:
Another possible solution...

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/16/man-makes-cellphone.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-End-Bike-Theft-The-Honeybike...

The legality of this is questionable as anyone injured from a booby trapped bike could likely sue its owner, but the results are still hilarious! For tech-minded and electronics savvy individuals out there, this might be the ticket:)
Permalink Reply by knowbody on July 9, 2010 at 9:23am
here's something that would trigger an event with one simple modification:



 click on the pic for the link...

it's great if just for peace of mind. to get text messages, emails, and phone calls whenever the alarm goes off or the battery is low (even a change in temperatures if so desired). the device is meant for tracking things down if stolen but it's nice to know if some kid is playing with my tricycle when i'm eight miles out on lake michigan... then it's a simple issue of "sending them a message".
Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on July 9, 2010 at 9:30am
DIY electronics are always best discussed while shirtless.

Liam said:
Another possible solution...

http://boingboing.net/2008/07/16/man-makes-cellphone.html
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-To-End-Bike-Theft-The-Honeybike...

The legality of this is questionable as anyone injured from a booby trapped bike could likely sue its owner, but the results are still hilarious! For tech-minded and electronics savvy individuals out there, this might be the ticket:)

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