Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Uptown Joe on January 20, 2013 at 2:36pm

To answer some of your questions, which I did not feel obliged to do, but will out of courtesy to you. I do have a significant other (not that owning a automobile should be a prerequisite to a relationship), my family is all over the country and accessing them without owning a car is quite easy actually.

The career I have does not require having a vehicle or limit my potential career growth. If it did, I would find something else to do. Something I would enjoy but would also allow me to continue living the way I do without owning a car. As far as family passing away. Like I said, they are easily accessible via public transportation (Megabus, Amtrak, Greyhound, or any of the airlines). If I were to visit a friend/family member who didn't reside in a city with public transit, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of taking a ride from them. As long as it was by choice.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

I am glad to hear that at 31 years old you already know what the rest of your life holds for you...

Are you married or have a significant other? Where is your family from? What kind of work do you do? All are questions that determine whether you might need a car at some point in your life: If you do not want a car at all costs, it might limit your choices in relationships and work options before you even start. Also you might have loved ones that pass away that live in places where you can only get to by car. Do you ever like to go on vacation to places you can only get to by car or airplane?

I am in my mid-forties and we have never owned a car. I rent a car 3-6 times a year for personal use and 3-6 times a year for business use. We don't plan to own a car, but if our life ever requires it I would not hesitate to get one.

You did not misunderstand. I wouldn't refuse a ride from someone if I made the choice. Have I made that choice? No, I have not. Only time I ever get in a car is when I take a taxi, which is public transportation. Granted, I do wish the vehicles were 100% electric and we were getting our energy from smarter sources than where we currently are but America is slowly coming along and I foresee changes in the future,

h' 1.0 said:

It's possible I misunderstood, but I don't think Uptown Joe is talking about never using or riding in a car again-- only ownership.

Uptown Joe said:

Would anything specifically aide in your decisions to drive again?

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Permalink Reply by Duppie on January 20, 2013 at 2:59pm

I wasn't looking for an answer to my questions. They were more examples of important steps in anyone's life that can be influenced by (not) having a car.

Yes, all these choices can be made successfully without owning a car, but assuming that everyone is able or willing to is rather naive.

Am I the only one who thinks that your definition of public transit is just a little odd? Since when are taxis and airlines considered public transportation?

So in your definition of living car-free, hailing a cab is OK, yet driving an i-Go car is not? Taking a ride from a relative is OK, yet renting a car to get to a family event is not?

Uptown Joe said:

I know you were being sarcastic but some people actually know what they want how to get it. I can't be one of those people? To answer some of your questions, which I did not feel obliged to do, but will out of courtesy to you. I do have a significant other (not that owning a automobile should be a prerequisite to a relationship), my family is all over the country and accessing them without owning a car is quite easy actually.

The career I have does not require having a vehicle or limit my potential career growth. If it did, I would find something else to do. Something I would enjoy but would also allow me to continue living the way I do without owning a car. As far as family passing away. Like I said, they are easily accessible via public transportation (Megabus, Amtrak, Greyhound, or any of the airlines). If I were to visit a friend/family member who didn't reside in a city with public transit, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of taking a ride from them. As long as it was by choice.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

I am glad to hear that at 31 years old you already know what the rest of your life holds for you...

Are you married or have a significant other? Where is your family from? What kind of work do you do? All are questions that determine whether you might need a car at some point in your life: If you do not want a car at all costs, it might limit your choices in relationships and work options before you even start. Also you might have loved ones that pass away that live in places where you can only get to by car. Do you ever like to go on vacation to places you can only get to by car or airplane?

I am in my mid-forties and we have never owned a car. I rent a car 3-6 times a year for personal use and 3-6 times a year for business use. We don't plan to own a car, but if our life ever requires it I would not hesitate to get one.

You did not misunderstand. I wouldn't refuse a ride from someone if I made the choice. Have I made that choice? No, I have not. Only time I ever get in a car is when I take a taxi, which is public transportation. Granted, I do wish the vehicles were 100% electric and we were getting our energy from smarter sources than where we currently are but America is slowly coming along and I foresee changes in the future,

h' 1.0 said:

It's possible I misunderstood, but I don't think Uptown Joe is talking about never using or riding in a car again-- only ownership.

Uptown Joe said:

Would anything specifically aide in your decisions to drive again?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Uptown Joe on January 20, 2013 at 3:09pm

Duppie, making a decision to not own a car has never once effected  any of those important steps of my life. Actually, my life is better. I have never been happier. Have a good night and enjoy the work week ahead.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

I wasn't looking for an answer to my questions. They were more examples of important steps in anyone's life that can be influenced by (not) having a car.

Yes, all these choices can be made successfully without owning a car, but assuming that everyone is able or willing to is rather naive.

Am I the only one who thinks that your definition of public transit is just a little odd? Since when are taxis and airlines considered public transportation?

So in your definition of living car-free, hailing a cab is OK, yet driving an i-Go car is not? Taking a ride from a relative is OK, yet renting a car to get to a family event is not?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on January 20, 2013 at 3:12pm

You're not the only one, Duppie. +1 from me on both of your posts. 

I'd love to see way less people in cars in the city, and that includes taxis. Cars on the highway going to non-transit accessible cities? Perfectly fine and unavoidable for many. 

I think this post is generally self-congratulatory, though, so maybe we can leave logic behind...

Duppie 13.5185km said:

Yes, all these choices can be made successfully without owning a car, but assuming that everyone is able or willing to is rather naive.

Am I the only one who thinks that your definition of public transit is just a little odd? Since when are taxis and airlines considered public transportation?

So in your definition of living car-free, hailing a cab is OK, yet driving an i-Go car is not? Taking a ride from a relative is OK, yet renting a car to get to a family event is not?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 20, 2013 at 4:21pm

You know, when I saw your first post I thought you were being a little bit like.. well like me...

Sure the first post was a little smug and self congratulatory but hey, it feels good to be smug.  I like the feeling I get when I do things by bike easily most people think a bike cannot do; however after reading the original posters reply I and agree with you 100%

I think it all also brings up an interesting issue; what is car free?  At what point are you really car free or not I consider myself car free but I also use a borrowed van about once a month; moving 20 bikes by bike would be a huge pain and I just do not have the time.  Does that make me not truly car free?

Duppie 13.5185km said:

I wasn't looking for an answer to my questions. They were more examples of important steps in anyone's life that can be influenced by (not) having a car.

Yes, all these choices can be made successfully without owning a car, but assuming that everyone is able or willing to is rather naive.

Am I the only one who thinks that your definition of public transit is just a little odd? Since when are taxis and airlines considered public transportation?

So in your definition of living car-free, hailing a cab is OK, yet driving an i-Go car is not? Taking a ride from a relative is OK, yet renting a car to get to a family event is not?

Uptown Joe said:

I know you were being sarcastic but some people actually know what they want how to get it. I can't be one of those people? To answer some of your questions, which I did not feel obliged to do, but will out of courtesy to you. I do have a significant other (not that owning a automobile should be a prerequisite to a relationship), my family is all over the country and accessing them without owning a car is quite easy actually.

The career I have does not require having a vehicle or limit my potential career growth. If it did, I would find something else to do. Something I would enjoy but would also allow me to continue living the way I do without owning a car. As far as family passing away. Like I said, they are easily accessible via public transportation (Megabus, Amtrak, Greyhound, or any of the airlines). If I were to visit a friend/family member who didn't reside in a city with public transit, I wouldn't dismiss the idea of taking a ride from them. As long as it was by choice.

Duppie 13.5185km said:

I am glad to hear that at 31 years old you already know what the rest of your life holds for you...

Are you married or have a significant other? Where is your family from? What kind of work do you do? All are questions that determine whether you might need a car at some point in your life: If you do not want a car at all costs, it might limit your choices in relationships and work options before you even start. Also you might have loved ones that pass away that live in places where you can only get to by car. Do you ever like to go on vacation to places you can only get to by car or airplane?

I am in my mid-forties and we have never owned a car. I rent a car 3-6 times a year for personal use and 3-6 times a year for business use. We don't plan to own a car, but if our life ever requires it I would not hesitate to get one.

You did not misunderstand. I wouldn't refuse a ride from someone if I made the choice. Have I made that choice? No, I have not. Only time I ever get in a car is when I take a taxi, which is public transportation. Granted, I do wish the vehicles were 100% electric and we were getting our energy from smarter sources than where we currently are but America is slowly coming along and I foresee changes in the future,

h' 1.0 said:

It's possible I misunderstood, but I don't think Uptown Joe is talking about never using or riding in a car again-- only ownership.

Uptown Joe said:

Would anything specifically aide in your decisions to drive again?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on January 20, 2013 at 6:01pm

kiltedcelt said:

I'm not car free. I live "car light" and I'm okay with that. I commute to work by bike except for a few days here and there, but basically far more days by bike than not. I run as many errands as I can by bike, but some days it just works out better to use the car to get some things done, especially when there may be a time crunch. However, I'm not replying to this thread to justify my own lifestyle measured against that of anyone else. What has me posting a reply is an insidious attitude I've noticed in this thread and peppered throughout The Chainlink as a whole. There is this notion of "cagers" put forth by a lot of folks on this forum and I don't necessarily agree with that attitude. Driving an automobile, or owning one for occasional use is not a bad thing.

Sure, you can go ahead and be smug that you've lived car free for however many years and only had to borrow a car whenever, blah, blah, blah. Great. I applaud your ability to survive without a car. What I hate is the subtly pervasive notion that car drivers are evil as a whole and this thread in particular seems to, (only two pages in), to be degenerating into a chainring waving competition to determine who's the more dedicated cyclist and who just isn't committed enough to "the movement." I don't even want to start splitting the hairs regarding the definition of car-free versus car-light and whether it's acceptable to rent cars or be part of a car share scheme, etc.

Maybe this thread would've been better posted as a poll of some sort versus being thrown out there as something that is invariably going to invite comment and cause divisiveness and I fear, degenerate into a chainring waving competition. Anyway, that's me, car-light with a commuter bike and a cargo bike. Anyway, my two-cents worth.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 20, 2013 at 6:09pm

Well said. 

kiltedcelt said:

I'm not car free. I live "car light" and I'm okay with that. I commute to work by bike except for a few days here and there, but basically far more days by bike than not. I run as many errands as I can by bike, but some days it just works out better to use the car to get some things done, especially when there may be a time crunch. However, I'm not replying to this thread to justify my own lifestyle measured against that of anyone else. What has me posting a reply is an insidious attitude I've noticed in this thread and peppered throughout The Chainlink as a whole. There is this notion of "cagers" put forth by a lot of folks on this forum and I don't necessarily agree with that attitude. Driving an automobile, or owning one for occasional use is not a bad thing.

Sure, you can go ahead and be smug that you've lived car free for however many years and only had to borrow a car whenever, blah, blah, blah. Great. I applaud your ability to survive without a car. What I hate is the subtly pervasive notion that car drivers are evil as a whole and this thread in particular seems to, (only two pages in), to be degenerating into a chainring waving competition to determine who's the more dedicated cyclist and who just isn't committed enough to "the movement." I don't even want to start splitting the hairs regarding the definition of car-free versus car-light and whether it's acceptable to rent cars or be part of a car share scheme, etc.

Maybe this thread would've been better posted as a poll of some sort versus being thrown out there as something that is invariably going to invite comment and cause divisiveness and I fear, degenerate into a chainring waving competition. Anyway, that's me, car-light with a commuter bike and a cargo bike. Anyway, my two-cents worth.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Jaik S. on January 20, 2013 at 6:41pm

This summer will mark eight years for me. I got rid of my Saab 900 Turbo when I still lived in Michigan. People thought I was crazy for getting rid of my car to walk and ride a bike places. I still have some nice memories of my cars that I've had, but I think about my bicycles a lot more.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Uptown Joe on January 21, 2013 at 2:22am

Well said, Sir. Have a great day.

h' 1.0 said:

There is absolutely nothing smug about anything Uptown Joe wrote.  He laid out what this thread was going to be about, and for some reason it seems to have gotten stuck in someone's craw.

I see nothing wrong with congratulating someone for making life without a car work.

Until you've actually gone car-free you don't entirely understand what it entails-- it's nice to have opportunity to connect with others who have similar experience without someone crapping all over it.

I find it particularly bizarre that the folks who jumped in and went all "divisive" on this discussion are the ones claiming Joe started a "divisive" thread.

This thread is about not owning a car.  It's not that hard to figure out. If you own a car, new discussions are free-- I'm sure we can always use more about being "car light."

I will afford you the courtesy of not posting to it, as it will clearly not have been intended for me.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Allison on January 21, 2013 at 5:06am

i personally haven't owned a car since 2000.

but i've been an I-GO member since 2004.

for the past year i've been living with my now fiance and she does own a car which she uses to get to work. her family all lives up in milwaukee, so the drive up I-94 is becoming a regular thing.

we currently live in a west loop condo, but we're talking about starting a family sometime after our marriage this summer, which will probably entail a move to a city neighborhood or inner burb where we can afford a little more space than a 1-bedroom condo. i imagine my future wife will always want to have a car. i imagine i will continue to live as bicycle-centric a lifestyle as possible.

I will ABSOLUTELY do everything within my power to keep us a 1-car family.

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Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on January 21, 2013 at 5:38am

I am,it wasn't by choice, but since I was a weekend bike rider for years it wasn't such a bad transition.

It will be 8 years in May. 

I had a job where it was 30 miles one way so I borrowed one then.

I'm not opposed to owing one but where mass transit is available (I mean we have the nations 2nd largest) why "waste" 100's a month if you don't need to.

Cabs, zipcar/igo/ I get around... all availiable for the NEED.

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Permalink Reply by Michael J Blane on January 21, 2013 at 7:35am

My wife and I have not owned a motor vehicle since 1989. Bike and Bus with an occasional taxi.

The last several years we've rented cars for some weekend visits to out-of-state relatives that are not near enough to trains or planes to make it work.

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