The Chainlink

I know you get what you pay for, but...

Does anyone else think that bicycle prices are just a little bit too high? (Insert Jimmy McMillan meme here) Several years ago, I bought a Gary Fisher MTB for almost $400 and thought at the time that that was a bit too much. Now that i'm interested in riding for exercise i've been looking at 'cross bikes and they average around $1000. Correct me if i'm wrong but in most of my research, most of the major brands manufacture their wares over  in Asia, do they not? I just don't get it. Maybe someone can explain what the hell is going on. Am i gonna have to buy a bike from Bikesdirect.com? Are they decent bikes? Sound off, people!!

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Permalink Reply by Barry Niel Stuart on October 24, 2012 at 3:02pm

Back to rising bike prices,  over three years ago I bought a Jamis Aurora touring bike from Cory the Bike Fixer for about $850.  A 2012 Jamis Aurora now runs about $1200.  Now included are a rear rack and fenders.  It has bar-end shifters instead of STI and a 48/38/28/ trekking crank and 11-28 9spd. shifting with a Tiagra derailleur instead of the 11-32 9spd. Deore system mine has.  I wouldn't be surprised if a good part of that price adjustment is involved in currency fluctuations between $US and Yuan. 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 24, 2012 at 3:11pm

Again, how is this bike related?  I didn't think this was the "car talk" thread.

James BlackHeron said:

248k?  That's hardly broke in.

My '94 has over 325k and pretty much everything still works except for the A/C...

Permalink Reply by Juan Primo on October 24, 2012 at 4:12pm

I bought my first new bike in 1993.  It was an entry level Trek mountainbike that I bought for $350.  Interesting to see that the same $350 would still buy me an entry level Trek mountainbike.

 

Cross bikes are not a place where you're going to save money.  They are pretty specialized for tough duty.  It is interesting to see that cross bikes are the next fixie in terms of hipsterdom.

 

(My first post here, btw.  Thought I'd enter strong with snark.)

Permalink Reply by Tricolor on October 24, 2012 at 4:17pm

I've thought about a conversion for the typical Mercedes 300D wagon, though personally I'm not a fan of automatic transmissions, particularly on such old cars.  After our nuclear war with Iran only Benz diesel owners and roaches will be left.  I'd say they're one in the same but roaches move quicker!

James BlackHeron said:


I wouldn't buy any other car but a mid-90's Camry or my Gen1 diesel when I finally do the veg/grease conversion to it.  

Permalink Reply by MagMileMarauder on October 24, 2012 at 5:02pm

If you go for the veggie conversion, I recommend a dual veggie/diesel tank system so you can purge the grease out of the fuel lines. Also make sure you are set up to process the WVO, filters alone will not do the trick. Centrifugation is best. What may seem like a neat idea to cut loose from petro-fuel might end up costing you a lot when you end up having to replace your fuel lines because they're coated with burnt food particles. Diesel Purge will help in a limited way. Speaking from experience here.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on October 24, 2012 at 5:10pm

I really should know better than to respond to your trolling and bike shop hate but it really irks me the way you hate on local shops.

First off there is no denying that going to your local bike shop is going to be more expensive than purchasing online. I also get that and understand that there are people out there who buy based on price alone.  However, I still like to think that there are lots of people in the Chicagoland bike community that understand that when you purchase from your local bike shop you really are getting something for that extra money; not just the warm fuzzy feeling of helping a local brick and mortar store or helping keep people in the local cycle community employed.  If those benefits are worth the extra coin to you is your own deal but even before I worked in the cycling industry I was a staunch supporter of my LBS for a variety of reason:

  • First off there is the ability to lay hands on, or even test ride, something before you purchase it.  If you purchase at your LBS you get to see what you want to buy before you actually buy it; nice on most stuff but even more important when buying a bike.  Having all those things in stock, the bikes assembled and space for you to come look at them costs shops money so the same stuff is going to be a little more.
  • You also get the support of knowledgeable staff you are, at a good shop, going to help you make an informed decision and make sure you get the right bike/part/accessory the first time.  Nothing sucks worse than ordering what you think you need or want only to have it be wrong and then deal with sending it back or selling it.  Your local shop is going to make sure you walk out the door with exactly what you want.  This is especially a big deal when it comes to something like a bike.
  • Of course mistakes still happen and things still might be what you expected which brings to light the next big benefit of buying from the LBS; you have a simple return process and don't have to ship anything anywhere.  I don't know about other shops but where I work you have 30 days to return anything you buy no questions asked.  Wrong parts or you don't like the color?  Return it for what you want or a refund!  Your special order Pugsley feels a bit to small?  Bring it back and get the one that fits!  Decided that you don't really want a Nature Boy?  Bring it back and get a refund!  Can you do that with Bikes Direct or other on-line retailers?
  • Of course no one retail shop can stock everything you want but you can have your LBS special order it without extra shipping charges (most times) and often get in in the same, or less, time than you can ordering online.  Yeah, you can probably get it cheaper on-line in about the same time but this goes back to the return thing; if you don't like what you get how easy is it to return it to some guy on Amazon or e-bay vs. bringing it back to the LBS?  Most good shops will take a return on a special order with no extra charge as well same as with in stock stuff.
  • There are also benefits other than customer service stuff.  If you buy a bike from a LBS unless you pay to have your bike assembled by a professional or are a very good home mechanic with a lot of special tools the bike you get online is not going to be as well put together as the one from a shop, same goes for wheels.  Good bike shops put a lot of time and effort into building bike, or prepping a wheel, for sale.  Bottom brackets and headsets get pulled apart to be greased better, wheels have tension checked and corrected (all but the nicest bikes and wheels are sub-par when they come in), cables are stretched and everything is checked out to make sure it is perfect because...
  • Your local bole shop is going to stand behind that bike.  I don't know what other shops do but we offer a year of free service on all the bikes we sell; you buy some accessories or decide to change stuff around on your bike in that first year all the labor is free.  You wear out a chain or brake pads and the labor to replace them is free.  We even stand behind the bike as far as defects go even when the manufacturer stops... This week I am rebuilding a stock wheel that came apart on a customer after 5 or 6 months; they are getting a new, better, rim and spokes for free because we stand behind the bikes we sell.  If a Bikes Direct bike has a quality issue like that after 6 months who fixes it for you and how much does it cost?
  • Never mind all the free air and quick fixes everyone gets at the local bike shop.  The internet is not out there giving people hardware that fell our of their rack or fenders or doing minor adjustments for free.  I cannot tell you how many times in a week I give out free hardware or do a quick adjust on a shift cable or bottom bracket.  Most shops I know take good care of their regulars and people that live and work around them.  I've given regular customers tubes to fix a flat when they have no cash on them and helped out people who couldn't afford to replace a blown out tire because it's important to me to keep people in Chicago not only on bikes but to try and help make cycling enjoyable for them.  I am not sure if there is anything I like more about working in a bike shop more than helping out and taking care of the people I see out on rides and events. 
  • And how many of those events are sponsored local shops or have staff from local shops working them?  I can't even count the free flat fixes I did at Bike The Drive this year. Your local bike shop supports the cycling community in Chicago, why shouldn't the cycling community in Chicago support local bike shops?

As to people who like local bike shops wanting to see fewer people on bikes; that is total bullshit and you know it.  Some of the people who are staunch supporters of, or even own, local bike shops do more than anyone else I know when it comes to advocating for cycling in general and trying to get people out there on bikes.


Zoetrope said:


Anyway, I'm not so sure I want you to speak for me when you say "I hope I speak for most of us here when I say that we at the Chainlink are not Bikesdirect people."  I'm not familiar with the site, but by the look of it it seems like a cheap place to get a bike.  At the risk of sounding like a naif, what's the problem?  I suspect you're another LBS foamer who would rather see 100 less people on bikes in the city if it meant you never had to buy a bike part/accessory from a shop that isn't on Damen or Milwaukee Ave and has a one syllable name (like "Cycle" or "Pedal" or "Ride")...but I really try hard not to read weird motives into peoples actions.  

Herppy berkwernter everyone   :D

 

Holly said:

I stand corrected. The OP is an innocent naif who doesn't know why some things cost more than others.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on October 24, 2012 at 5:41pm

Automatic transmission + small diesel makes for a DOG of a vehicle.    The little Camry has a forklift engine in it (silly Toyota) but with the 5 speed transmission it does well and cruises as fast as you want to go up to crazy speeds on the highway (It'll do 100 easy and get up there with decent accelleration for a passenger car.)

It gets about 45 in mixed driving -and can be stretched to nearly 50 if you drive slower than 55 on the highway or really take it easy around town. 


I was going to do an Elsbet conversion but they wanted 4x more than I paid for the car for the conversion. When the price of diesel went up and grease no longer was free I lost a lot of my diesel excitement.  Mayb e someday.  I have it in storage -it's ready for the Iraq war...

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on October 24, 2012 at 10:31pm

I don't make a habit of replying to your posts, Dug, but since you typed up such an extra long and ranty  one (with bullet points!), even by your standards, I'll happily indulge you.  As far as local bike shops, there are some I like and some I don't.  I've stated my reasons for not liking certain shops in posts past, I stand by those reasons, and you're welcome to go read them again and again until you have an aneurysm.  I'm sorry you felt the need to defend Rapid Transit again, but I really wasn't talking about any specific shop here; It was just a smart assed comment directed towards Holly.      

notoriousDUG said:

....

Permalink Reply by Dave D on October 24, 2012 at 11:03pm

I think  $1,000.00 dollars for a road bike or decent mountain bike is not over the top. The light weight  decent carbon bikes are often sold for $4,000.00-$6,000.00. Don't get me wrong there are cheaper carbons sub $3,000.00.  I bought my Aluminum Road Bike with Carbon Fork on sale as a prior year model during the Winter for $999.00.  It is light weight about 20lbs, nice Apex group, carbon fork, carbon seat post. All of these things aren't cheap. Nevertheless, it is light and has decent components. It was not $5,000.00 and will probably last a decade or more. Think about what a new car costs. I don't think $1,000.00 is outrageous for a decent Mtn or Road bike that will last at lest as long as a car would last.

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on October 24, 2012 at 11:18pm

Is that your FINAL answer Brendan?

Zoetrope said:

I don't make a habit of replying to your posts, Dug, [snip]...


notoriousDUG said:

....

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on October 25, 2012 at 1:16am

My #1 reason wasn't included.  I try to support LBS's when possible because a bike-friendly city would have at least one bike shop in every neighborhood. And that's the city I want to live in.

notoriousDUG said:

I really should know better than to respond to your trolling and bike shop hate but it really irks me the way you hate on local shops.

First off there is no denying that going to your local bike shop is going to be more expensive than purchasing online. I also get that and understand that there are people out there who buy based on price alone.  However, I still like to think that there are lots of people in the Chicagoland bike community that understand that when you purchase from your local bike shop you really are getting something for that extra money; not just the warm fuzzy feeling of helping a local brick and mortar store or helping keep people in the local cycle community employed.  If those benefits are worth the extra coin to you is your own deal but even before I worked in the cycling industry I was a staunch supporter of my LBS for a variety of reason:

  • First off there is the ability to lay hands on, or even test ride, something before you purchase it.  If you purchase at your LBS you get to see what you want to buy before you actually buy it; nice on most stuff but even more important when buying a bike.  Having all those things in stock, the bikes assembled and space for you to come look at them costs shops money so the same stuff is going to be a little more.
  • You also get the support of knowledgeable staff you are, at a good shop, going to help you make an informed decision and make sure you get the right bike/part/accessory the first time.  Nothing sucks worse than ordering what you think you need or want only to have it be wrong and then deal with sending it back or selling it.  Your local shop is going to make sure you walk out the door with exactly what you want.  This is especially a big deal when it comes to something like a bike.
  • Of course mistakes still happen and things still might be what you expected which brings to light the next big benefit of buying from the LBS; you have a simple return process and don't have to ship anything anywhere.  I don't know about other shops but where I work you have 30 days to return anything you buy no questions asked.  Wrong parts or you don't like the color?  Return it for what you want or a refund!  Your special order Pugsley feels a bit to small?  Bring it back and get the one that fits!  Decided that you don't really want a Nature Boy?  Bring it back and get a refund!  Can you do that with Bikes Direct or other on-line retailers?
  • Of course no one retail shop can stock everything you want but you can have your LBS special order it without extra shipping charges (most times) and often get in in the same, or less, time than you can ordering online.  Yeah, you can probably get it cheaper on-line in about the same time but this goes back to the return thing; if you don't like what you get how easy is it to return it to some guy on Amazon or e-bay vs. bringing it back to the LBS?  Most good shops will take a return on a special order with no extra charge as well same as with in stock stuff.
  • There are also benefits other than customer service stuff.  If you buy a bike from a LBS unless you pay to have your bike assembled by a professional or are a very good home mechanic with a lot of special tools the bike you get online is not going to be as well put together as the one from a shop, same goes for wheels.  Good bike shops put a lot of time and effort into building bike, or prepping a wheel, for sale.  Bottom brackets and headsets get pulled apart to be greased better, wheels have tension checked and corrected (all but the nicest bikes and wheels are sub-par when they come in), cables are stretched and everything is checked out to make sure it is perfect because...
  • Your local bole shop is going to stand behind that bike.  I don't know what other shops do but we offer a year of free service on all the bikes we sell; you buy some accessories or decide to change stuff around on your bike in that first year all the labor is free.  You wear out a chain or brake pads and the labor to replace them is free.  We even stand behind the bike as far as defects go even when the manufacturer stops... This week I am rebuilding a stock wheel that came apart on a customer after 5 or 6 months; they are getting a new, better, rim and spokes for free because we stand behind the bikes we sell.  If a Bikes Direct bike has a quality issue like that after 6 months who fixes it for you and how much does it cost?
  • Never mind all the free air and quick fixes everyone gets at the local bike shop.  The internet is not out there giving people hardware that fell our of their rack or fenders or doing minor adjustments for free.  I cannot tell you how many times in a week I give out free hardware or do a quick adjust on a shift cable or bottom bracket.  Most shops I know take good care of their regulars and people that live and work around them.  I've given regular customers tubes to fix a flat when they have no cash on them and helped out people who couldn't afford to replace a blown out tire because it's important to me to keep people in Chicago not only on bikes but to try and help make cycling enjoyable for them.  I am not sure if there is anything I like more about working in a bike shop more than helping out and taking care of the people I see out on rides and events. 
  • And how many of those events are sponsored local shops or have staff from local shops working them?  I can't even count the free flat fixes I did at Bike The Drive this year. Your local bike shop supports the cycling community in Chicago, why shouldn't the cycling community in Chicago support local bike shops?

As to people who like local bike shops wanting to see fewer people on bikes; that is total bullshit and you know it.  Some of the people who are staunch supporters of, or even own, local bike shops do more than anyone else I know when it comes to advocating for cycling in general and trying to get people out there on bikes.


Zoetrope said:


Anyway, I'm not so sure I want you to speak for me when you say "I hope I speak for most of us here when I say that we at the Chainlink are not Bikesdirect people."  I'm not familiar with the site, but by the look of it it seems like a cheap place to get a bike.  At the risk of sounding like a naif, what's the problem?  I suspect you're another LBS foamer who would rather see 100 less people on bikes in the city if it meant you never had to buy a bike part/accessory from a shop that isn't on Damen or Milwaukee Ave and has a one syllable name (like "Cycle" or "Pedal" or "Ride")...but I really try hard not to read weird motives into peoples actions.  

Herppy berkwernter everyone   :D

 

Holly said:

I stand corrected. The OP is an innocent naif who doesn't know why some things cost more than others.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on October 25, 2012 at 6:52am

I think that's one of the best reasons of all.  If every neighborhood had at least one bike shop, Chicago would be a better place to live and ride.

h' said:

My #1 reason wasn't included.  I try to support LBS's when possible because a bike-friendly city would have at least one bike shop in every neighborhood. And that's the city I want to live in.

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