Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on December 16, 2014 at 6:44am

Well said.

David Barish said:

In short I never say that the incident  occurred because the rider was a ninja but I will always say a rider has a greater chance of getting home safely if he/she is not a ninja.

Permalink Reply by Haddon on December 16, 2014 at 9:06am

If you had a car without head lights and you drove into a tree no one would feel sorry for you. If you had a car and didn't have break lights and got rear ended everyone would say you were dumb.

If you ride a bike without any lights, any reflectors and you get plowed into the pavement (and if you are wearing headphones and no helmet) I feel safe in saying you are lacking basic common sense and if not effectively asking for it are opening the door wide.

Permalink Reply by Jim Reho on December 16, 2014 at 6:46pm

Haddon's point seems pretty clear to me, and I agree with it.
rwein5 said:

Yikes, run on sentence. Can you clarify, please? This one won't do.

Haddon said:

If you ride a bike without any lights, any reflectors and you get plowed into the pavement (and if you are wearing headphones and no helmet) I feel safe in saying you are lacking basic common sense and if not effectively asking for it are opening the door wide.

Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on December 17, 2014 at 6:29am

My feeling is it that it makes me "feel safe" but only to a certain degree. It may give a driver a "heads-up I'm cycling here" so they can go back to playing with their smartphone or yelling at their spouse or kids in their Suvs or whatever distracted behaviors they do 95% of the time instead of DRIVING ATTENTIVELY ! That is why even if you are an 'obedient' cyclist you are in danger of becoming a 'victim' to these Constantly Distracted Drivers !

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on December 17, 2014 at 6:39am

This is why I try to ride attentively in traffic regardless of what I've done to make myself visible. There is no one magic bullet for staying safe.
 
Tom A.K. said:

My feeling is it that it makes me "feel safe" but only to a certain degree. It may give a driver a "heads-up I'm cycling here" so they can go back to playing with their smartphone or yelling at their spouse or kids in their Suvs or whatever distracted behaviors they do 95% of the time instead of DRIVING ATTENTIVELY ! That is why even if you are an 'obedient' cyclist you are in danger of becoming a 'victim' to these Constantly Distracted Drivers !

Permalink Reply by David Barish on December 17, 2014 at 7:38am

Tom, as Anne mentioned, you bring up a good point. that is why there is always an element of luck involved. You may do all the right things and be an experienced rider but a mom may be yelling at her kids in the backseat,  a goof may be sending a text, or a drunk in a beamer... we all know where that leads. So, we do the best we can to give ourselves the best odds of success. Being visible is one of them. I think the most important factor (at the risk of thread drift) is your own awareness and attention.  When I did the AIDS Ride in 1997 and 1998 they had a mantra, "stay alert stay alive" that has stayed  with me ever since. If I ever feel my attention fading I repeat the mantra.  Your instincts, your attention, your ability to react give you the best chance of getting home. Still, being visible will add to the equation.  I don't make my self visible to feel good. I do it to put more weight on my end of the equation.  

Anne Alt said:

This is why I try to ride attentively in traffic regardless of what I've done to make myself visible. There is no one magic bullet for staying safe.
 
Tom A.K. said:

My feeling is it that it makes me "feel safe" but only to a certain degree. It may give a driver a "heads-up I'm cycling here" so they can go back to playing with their smartphone or yelling at their spouse or kids in their Suvs or whatever distracted behaviors they do 95% of the time instead of DRIVING ATTENTIVELY ! That is why even if you are an 'obedient' cyclist you are in danger of becoming a 'victim' to these Constantly Distracted Drivers !

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on December 17, 2014 at 8:03am

This is why I like to use a mirror - ALWAYS - in addition to anything I do to be visible. More than once, I've seen a car approaching that seemed too close to my line, or drifting that way, and I was able to get the driver's attention with a friendly wave - or move over a little to stay clear. "Stay alert, stay alive" works for me.
 
David Barish said:

 I don't make my self visible to feel good. I do it to put more weight on my end of the equation.  
 

Permalink Reply by Skip Montanaro 0mi on December 22, 2014 at 9:42am

Andy Moss 9.5 said:

Years ago I caught my mom driving her Lexus in the dark with the lights off.  The issue for her was that the car's gauges were lighted at all times, because the dials were practically invisible even during the day without backlighting...

This is, I think, a common problem on cars equipped with daytime running lights. Your headlights are on at reduced intensity, so you can be fooled into thinking your lights are on. However, your taillights are dark.

Back to the original topic... I think it's worthwhile to remind people to consider bright/reflective clothing for nighttime riding, running or walking. I don't think it's a blame the victim game. The difference between cyclists, runners and pedestrians on the one hand, and cars and trucks on the other, is that there is a long history of regulations requiring suitable lights and reflectors for cars and trucks. The presence of these devices does not affect how sharply you're dressed. Not so much for the human powered folk. Yes, there are laws requiring the use of lights and reflectors after dark, but there is (as far as I know) no requirement that bikes be sold with lights. Reflectors, yes, but they break, get removed, fall off, and aren't replaced. In addition, the clothing said human wears -- broadly speaking -- defines the outline of the "vehicle." The addition of a reflective vest or day-glo jacket to the wardrobe of a driver won't affect their visibility one bit.

I'm not sure how many people here ride in the dark in very low-light conditions. My normal route to work includes the LFT from Ardmore to Fullerton. There are several sections where street lights are minimal to nonexistent. If you're riding before about 6:45 or after about 4:30 these days, runners and walkers can be damn hard to see if they aren't wearing something reflective. It's amazing how many people are out there walking on the path completely clothed in colors ranging between dark brown and black.

So, do what you want. I'm certain you'll be safer with a little bit of reflective equipment. Maybe even a light or two.

Permalink Reply by Patty O'Furniture on December 22, 2014 at 3:49pm

+1

The Korn said:

I don't do high visibility gear; that's my vanity speaking.  (It doesn't speak often, but when it does it holds a trump card.)

But I do ride with my lights on at all times (even during the day) because it really helps being seen.  A big part of being seen is, in a nutshell, being borderline obnoxious about being seen.  I do it with lights, others do it with high visibility gear, whatever floats your boat.  Whatever you do, just be seen.  Nothing infuriates me more than riding in pitch black and coming across a biker on the road with no reflectors, no lights, and more often than not riding a black bike.

Permalink Reply by Patty O'Furniture on December 22, 2014 at 3:51pm

Thunder Snow said:

+1

Permalink Reply by Shawn Evans on December 22, 2014 at 11:48pm

I use lights, so high visibility clothing is superfluous. Highway construction workers use them because they're moving around the worksite in unpredictable ways; they're not riding a bike in a predictable fashion (going straight ahead).

Lights are made to be seen at a distance, to give you a 'heads up' that something's coming. Even at night you can see something without lights when you get close enough, but by then it could be too late because, at your rate of speed, you may not be able to stop in time.

Some people overdo the lights. They use very bright lights, blinking at a rate fast enough to give people epilepsy. During the day. Yes, we can see you. In fact, people in the next state can see you. Please stop that and get normal lights.

Towns without adequate street lights are just as bad as riders without lights. Once I almost ran into a parked, dark car because I couldn't see it until I was right on top of it. And without good street lighting, any time a car approaches, their headlights blind me. Can't see a thing.

It might be a good idea to put a flagpole on the bike and place a light on top the flagpole. Then traffic behind cars would know you're there, and wouldn't blow the horn at the lead car when he stopped behind you (this actually happened to me). And they wouldn't speed up as soon as the lead car exited the lane, thinking they had a clear lane. Plus, cars going over hills would see you sooner.

Permalink Reply by PK RPR on December 25, 2014 at 1:20am

Hi-Viz gear is like seatbelts in cars. You hate them at first then you forget you are wearing them and boy are you glad you are wearing it if you need it. Not full proof, not magic, but incredibly dumb not to wear.

Vests are like 10 or 12 bucks at Home Depot, they fit inside your helmet or bag/coat pocket, and can be worn over whatever you are wearing.

Not sure what the big deal is....

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