The Chainlink

Is there a way to raise locking technique awareness?

A while ago I was near "The Green Mill"/"Crew" and I saw 6 bicycles locked within 15 feet of each other that were locked horribly. Most of them used cheap keyed cable locks securing only their frame or frame and front wheel to rack/post. 1 had the cheapest U-lock possible securing only the frame. 4 out of 6 all had quick releases, the ones that secured their front wheel didn't have quick release.

There were 2 that were exceptionally bad though. One had a knockoff Kryptoflex cable locking his frame and front wheel, the cable was held together with a high school style Master lock to the rack. The other actually had a decent U-lock (not sure of brand) but the U-lock was only secured to the frame, the part that secured the bike to the rack was a very thin piece of cable that was attached to the U-lock going around the bicycle rack. 

The items that I linked aren't precisely the same ones but are very similar items to give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

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Permalink Reply by Bez on August 8, 2013 at 6:47am
Could also try this one. I use it on my daily, but I have used it on a cruiser in the past.


http://onguardlock.com/products/u-locks/bulldog-ls-u-lock/
Permalink Reply by Michael J Blane on August 8, 2013 at 12:32pm

What do you base this statement on?

Are you more experienced than my LBS owners who recommend ABUS?

Do you have access to enough theft reports to say this?

h' 1.0 said:

This can not be overemphasized:

The folding ABUS locks are not appropriate as a primary lock in Chicago, and provide nowhere near the security of a $40 Kryptonite U-lock.  I will go as far as to say that I hope any shop that sells them in Chicago without a clear warning to the buyer goes out of business.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on August 8, 2013 at 12:43pm

Read the thread, Michael. I base it on how easily these locks are being defeated. Actual reports from actual victims. One without any tools- just snapped at one of the joints. A grinder would take 1/3 of the time to cut through one than for a $40 U-lock.

I am not sure why you think an LBS owner would know more about bike theft in Chicago than I do.

Michael J Blane 6.5 said:

What do you base this statement on?

Are you more experienced than my LBS owners who recommend ABUS?

Do you have access to enough theft reports to say this?

h' 1.0 said:

This can not be overemphasized:

The folding ABUS locks are not appropriate as a primary lock in Chicago, and provide nowhere near the security of a $40 Kryptonite U-lock.  I will go as far as to say that I hope any shop that sells them in Chicago without a clear warning to the buyer goes out of business.

Permalink Reply by Michael J Blane on August 8, 2013 at 12:58pm

This is about the point where I stop reading this thread because of statements with no backing.

I did read the thread and I just re-read this thread. I can't seem to find anyone in this thread mentioning having their own bike stolen.

There was one mention of two folding locks being cut, but even Kevin C, who posted that, said that he hadn't seen the locks, but the descriptions seemed pretty clear that the lock was broken rather than cut.

All the "independent" reviews that I've recently read online mention that nearly all locks can be cut in 2-3 minutes with an angle grinder.

Oh, I don't know, tell me why I think that you should know anything about bike theft in Chicago.

So again I ask, what do you base this statement on?

Bye.


h' 1.0 said:

Read the thread, Michael. I base it on how easily these locks are being defeated. Actual reports from actual victims. One without any tools- just snapped at one of the joints. A grinder would take 1/3 of the time to cut through one than for a $40 U-lock.

I am not sure why you think an LBS owner would know more about bike theft in Chicago than I do.

Michael J Blane 6.5 said:

What do you base this statement on?

Are you more experienced than my LBS owners who recommend ABUS?

Do you have access to enough theft reports to say this?

h' 1.0 said:

This can not be overemphasized:

The folding ABUS locks are not appropriate as a primary lock in Chicago, and provide nowhere near the security of a $40 Kryptonite U-lock.  I will go as far as to say that I hope any shop that sells them in Chicago without a clear warning to the buyer goes out of business.

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on August 8, 2013 at 1:02pm

His years of experience with the Stolen Bike Database.  He DOES know what he's talking about.

Michael J Blane 6.5 said:

This is about the point where I stop reading this thread because of statements with no backing.

I did read the thread and I just re-read this thread. I can't seem to find anyone in this thread mentioning having their own bike stolen.

There was one mention of two folding locks being cut, but even Kevin C, who posted that, said that he hadn't seen the locks, but the descriptions seemed pretty clear that the lock was broken rather than cut.

All the "independent" reviews that I've recently read online mention that nearly all locks can be cut in 2-3 minutes with an angle grinder.

Oh, I don't know, tell me why I think that you should know anything about bike theft in Chicago.

So again I ask, what do you base this statement on?

Bye.

Permalink Reply by Michael J Blane on August 8, 2013 at 1:31pm

Thank you.

Anne Alt said:

His years of experience with the Stolen Bike Database.  He DOES know what he's talking about.

Michael J Blane 6.5 said:

This is about the point where I stop reading this thread because of statements with no backing.

I did read the thread and I just re-read this thread. I can't seem to find anyone in this thread mentioning having their own bike stolen.

There was one mention of two folding locks being cut, but even Kevin C, who posted that, said that he hadn't seen the locks, but the descriptions seemed pretty clear that the lock was broken rather than cut.

All the "independent" reviews that I've recently read online mention that nearly all locks can be cut in 2-3 minutes with an angle grinder.

Oh, I don't know, tell me why I think that you should know anything about bike theft in Chicago.

So again I ask, what do you base this statement on?

Bye.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on August 8, 2013 at 3:10pm

Michael- you're not exactly new here so I guess I thought you knew, sorry...  I've been immersed in bike theft for 7 years, have read and approved thousands of detailed reports, followed up with victims, solicited photos when locks were cut or broken and the methodology wasn't unclear, made tens of trips to flea markets and other venues researching where stolen bikes go and accompanying victims and getting stolen bikes back for victims, facilitated and participated in police efforts to recover bikes, met with police and engaged in ongoing communication.... in regard to this particular lock:

-we've had two very recently, one clearly "snapped", the other with a clean cut that appears to be an Angle grinder

-Kevin and I (and a few others) collaborate on the CSBR and work as a team in terms of communication with victims

-A $40 U-lock takes a pro about 30 seconds to cut with an angle grinder, a thicker U-lock maybe twice that, and double that for the locks that require two cuts.

-I estimate that it would take 15-20 seconds to cut one of these with an angle grinder.  Maybe as little as 10 under ideal conditions. That's an order of magnitude easier than a U-lock.  So even if the one that was snapped was just some sort of freak manufacturing glitch, I don't think it's a controversial statement to say that these are not appropriate as primary locks in Chicago.


Michael J Blane 6.5 said:

This is about the point where I stop reading this thread because of statements with no backing.

I did read the thread and I just re-read this thread. I can't seem to find anyone in this thread mentioning having their own bike stolen.

There was one mention of two folding locks being cut, but even Kevin C, who posted that, said that he hadn't seen the locks, but the descriptions seemed pretty clear that the lock was broken rather than cut.

All the "independent" reviews that I've recently read online mention that nearly all locks can be cut in 2-3 minutes with an angle grinder.

Oh, I don't know, tell me why I think that you should know anything about bike theft in Chicago.

So again I ask, what do you base this statement on?

Bye.


h' 1.0 said:

Read the thread, Michael. I base it on how easily these locks are being defeated. Actual reports from actual victims. One without any tools- just snapped at one of the joints. A grinder would take 1/3 of the time to cut through one than for a $40 U-lock.

I am not sure why you think an LBS owner would know more about bike theft in Chicago than I do.

Michael J Blane 6.5 said:

What do you base this statement on?

Are you more experienced than my LBS owners who recommend ABUS?

Do you have access to enough theft reports to say this?

h' 1.0 said:

This can not be overemphasized:

The folding ABUS locks are not appropriate as a primary lock in Chicago, and provide nowhere near the security of a $40 Kryptonite U-lock.  I will go as far as to say that I hope any shop that sells them in Chicago without a clear warning to the buyer goes out of business.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on August 8, 2013 at 3:20pm

Anyways, sorry for any role in derailling this thread-- we desperately need folks like Shawn asking how the bike community can work to look out for itself and to be smarter and stronger.

I'm kind of maxed out personally, but have always viewed the CSBR as an educational tool primarily, so I'm not going to feel too guilty for being unable to help too much--- but it's great to see others willing to do so!

Permalink Reply by JimmyD on August 8, 2013 at 5:21pm

H'....

I don't think you (or Michael J Blane) derailed the thread in any way. It was a valid question and your reply was very insightful for those of us without the extensive knowledge you have on the subject of bike locks being defeated.

Permalink Reply by yai danche on August 8, 2013 at 7:36pm

some ppl are not that invested in their bikes.  either they are frugal or they accept the fact that their bike WILL be stolen.  so they don't get too attached, buy cheap mountain bikes and cheap locks, lock up the quickest way possible which is sometimes haphazard.  don't know why this makes sense to them, because even if i spent like $50 on that stuff i'd still be mad if it got stolen.

Permalink Reply by norman kaeseberg on August 9, 2013 at 9:53am

I used a Masterlock U lock and a cable on my antique steelie 10 speed, then I bought a shiny Trek hybrid with quick release wheels and, yuck, I couldn't get the MasterU lock around the thick frame. So I bought a wider and longer U lock (X2) on Amazon, and it (barely) slips around a sign post or bike rack, the front wheel and the frame. The old U lock now slips around the rear wheel and frame, and the old cable slips through the (removable) seat and around the frame. It's a 5 minute deal, but the bike's still mine! ALSO>>>all those bus sign / no parking posts we lock up to are secured with one nut and bolt at the base, That nut can be removed in about 10 seconds and your bike ends up in a van in another 5 seconds, then they can cut the locks later at the Bad Guy Hide-out. Never lock to these posts! And some posts already have the bolt removed, so all you need to do is lift the signpost up and toss it on the ground. Sign posts - BAD

Permalink Reply by Gold Coast Fixed on August 9, 2013 at 10:02am

My front wheel is quick release so I use the U-lock to get the front wheel and the frame and usually the bike rack if it can reach, then I use the cable to get the back wheel which is not a quick release.  Most of the time I can either get the cable or the U-lock around something planted in the ground as well.

If not I only lock the frame and the front wheel and use the cable to anchor it to something.

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