Bikes on trains: Conductors perspective
Ive looked through a few of the topics on this matter and thought I'd give my 2c from a different viewpoint, that toolbag from the kingdom of jerk off, a Metra conductor. Have 15 years in and it was oh so nice for the first 9 not to have to deal with this but as we all know, that ended a few years back and the geniuses at Metra who came with the plan as usual half assed it and left us , the operating employee, holding the bag for it. While they are at home every weekend, they leave it to us to enforce the policy, rules and regs that go along with being able to bring bikes on board, a policy that to this day many riders have zero clue about the proper way of doing. Of course the people who read this forum dont fall into this category at all, you are all respectful and abide by what the conductor says every time you ride Im sure. Bikes in general are a pain to have on the train, whether or not there is room for them. To this day, my estimate is that 60% of the people STILL get on without a way to secure their bike to the bottom rail like theyre supposed to, then want to fight with me about letting them ride anyway. Main reason we are such sticklers for this? If for some reason that bike is unsecured and something happens where the train moves suddenly, derails, goes through a crossover, etc and it breaks loose and hits little Tommy sitting with his Mom across the aisle and hurts him, management and Tommys Mom arent going to come after you the bike rider. Nope, theyre going to come after me, the conductor and first thing theyre going to ask / tell me is why didnt you make sure those bikes were tied down? Boom, Im out of a job when Tommys Mom sues and Im not putting my families future at risk because some doofus doesnt carry around a bungee or chain. Next, relinquishing your seat or being asked to leave the train when the train becomes too crowded IS a possibility and a risk you take when you bring your bike on board. Ive had so many arguments over this its not even funny. People seem to think once theyre on, thats it and they cant be asked to leave when we need the space. Sorry, but we can do that and Im not making a family of 5 stand up for 30 plus miles just so you can bring your bike on. Next up, reaching max capacity . Certain trains can take up to 15 bikes but we dont have to take that many. If the bikes that are on board are clogging the aisle making walking by them unsafe, Im going to cut off the bikes right there and no more will be allowed to board. So when you try to get on halfway down the line and I tell you we're full, its my decision and its final. I usually get the "cmon man you can take 1 more" stance and Im not going to compromise the safety of the other passengers no matter how much people beg and plead. Youve all seen how crowded those trains are especially on weekends, and when I have to move 4 people from their seats when you get on 1 stop out of Ogilve / Union so you can bring your bike on, its a pain, I dont like my job to be a pain, I like it to run smooth. Bikes in general cause the train not to run so smooth because of all the baggage that goes along with it. Just keep that in mind next time you think the conductor is being a jerk to some rider about their bike. NONE and I mean none of the conductors I know like having them on board m we are being forced to do it because some dopes at the top thought it would be a good idea and forced it on us without really creating a way to make it palatable for us and for you the rider. For that I dont fault you I fault them but they leave us to clean up the mess . Thanks for reading, Flame away.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by SlowCoachOnTheRoad on
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I don't really see what the big deal is in segregating some areas for bicycles. How hard in the modern world could it be to design spaces for bikes? I do understand the challenges of an overpacked train heading for Ravinia - but surely it would be easy enough to conduct a needs assessment and build something for bikes that don't get in the way of passengers? Look at the buses in Chicago - they can accommodate 2 bikes per bus, and they are relatively easy to get on and off. I have not studied this issue and therefore admit to my own ignorance about it, but surely it would be easy enough to add a bunch of clasping hooks to the edge of trains that bikes could just be placed on by biking passengers (like the ones we use when we carry our bikes on the back of our cars, but more user friendly so that train schedules aren't seriously impacted) - say 4 bikes per carriage? Again, as we say in England, "I dunno," but surely this is a really easy problem to solve and all it takes is a bit of imagination. I bet bikers who go on trains would even pay an extra train fee if necessary that could help finance the cost of the construction!
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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Complaining without doing something about it is nothing but bitching and that never got anybody anywhere.
I took a pretty hefty pay cut to work a job I enjoyed instead of one I hated but made me lots of money. You think that people who dislike their job should only quit for something better but; isn't job satisfaction better? Or do you only base how good a job is off of how well it pays? Who does that make the elitist?
Steve Cohen said:Sorry, notoriousDUG. If you are unhappy enough in your job to want to quit and IF YOU CAN FIND SOMETHING BETTER for yourself, maybe you should give it a go. But if not, this is still a free country and there's nothing wrong with complaining about it on the internet, joining a union, or whatever floats your boat as long as you're not doing something abusive.
Since you don't actually know the person complaining on the internet, your comment is nothing but elitist cant. Free advice costs nothing and it's worth every penny.
notoriousDUG said:There is a difference between anti-worker and thinking that if your job makes you so unhappy you need to complain about it on the internet you should just find a new one.
Steve Cohen said:Well goody goody for you. I have quit jobs too, that I didn't like. But if you're trying to tell us that if can't keep a smile on your face the whole fricking day, you have a DUTY to quit your job, that's beyond stupid! Some people don't like their jobs and DON'T have a choice. Or maybe they like some parts of their jobs and not others. Or maybe they can't afford the salary loss.
Geez, when did we become such an anti-worker society?
notoriousDUG said:Everybody has a choice.
I changed careers several years ago because I was unhappy. I did have to make lifestyle changes because I chose to be happy over a larger paycheck but there is always an option out there.
Steve Cohen said:Oh, please, Zidaane. What planet are you living on? Plenty of people don't like their jobs, but have no choice if they want to make a living.
Zidaane said:You either like your job or you don't. If you find yourself continually annoyed by your management, your customers or any type of change, then you might need to seek some other occupation.
The majority of conductors I've dealt with seem really happy with the job.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Cohen on
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Dug:
What makes you think I'm equating "more lucrative" with "better"? Did I ever say that? I most certainly did not! No, I'm quite willing to leave the definition of "better" up to the individual doing the deciding.
But the fact remains, that a person may in fact have (or feel he has) no better choice than a job he (or she) hates. Maybe the person (or a family member) has an illness and needs the existing health insurance because he or she is uninsurable otherwise. Or maybe the pay cut they might have to absorb is simply too big a cut. You assume that because you were once able to make such a move, anyone ought to be. You're wrong. I was once able to make a move to a lower-paying but more satisfying job. Another time I had such a job offer in my hands and a job I hated, but had to turn it down because of family responsibilities.
It is your assumption that anyone can do what you did that offends me. It's arrogant. Think about it.
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Reply by h' 1.0
If management tells a paid employee that they're resonsible for implementing something new, and doing their part to help it go smoothly while keeping curtomer satisfaction in mind, then the paid employee has a choice of carrying out management's wishes, or finding another job. They can certainly walk around bitching about it, and do their part to subtly sabotage it, and complain about their employer on public message boards, but in most professions they'd be on track to be terminated after not too long.
What speaks most poorly about Metra management here is that employees are basically allowed to drag their obvious disgruntlement around and flaunt it for the world to see and there doesn't seem to be a process for correcting that.
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So you're saying I could be / should be on the track for termination because I dare speak out negatively against something that was mandated I do with no input from the people actually being left to do the work involved . The system they put in quite frankly sucks. I think most of the people who take their bikes on the train would agree. They are free to complain about it but Im supposed to shut up and be a good little soldier huh? Im sure you work at that utopian job where all the employees agree 100% with whatever theyre asked to do and would never deign to complain on a personal blog, workplace forum, in the break room or anywhere else. Its only Metra employees who do that.
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Good question Rich. Part of the problem is the way the coaches are set up. As you know bikes are only allowed in cars with the wheelchair lift a.k.a. the ADA cars. They are interspersed throughout the train. Most trains are supposed to have at least 2 of those cars, prefferably on either end of the train to facilitate wheelchair boarding in either direction. In a perfect world that would be the norm but a lot of times they trains arent set up that way, especially on weekends. So say you have a 7 car train and the bike car is 2nd from the engine, along with 2 other open cars. That bike car fills up along with the 2 other open cars you are running with on that trip. Now 2 more bikes need to board but the only other bike car is the last car in the train , or 3 closed cars away . Now the conductor has to open 2 closed cars plus the other bike car to board those bikes. Hes now running all 7 cars open ( or at least 6) when the boarding dictates only 3 "needing" to be opened , except for the 2 bikes that now want to board. Now Metras policy is , yes open that far car until you reach capacity for bikes. While I don't want to say the additional bikes would be denied boarding, I will say most times the crew wouldnt be very happy about doing it as it creates logistical problems having the extra cars open with only a couple people in each of those extra cars. So personally, I would do it but begrudgingly. Heres something to keep in mind though. In the example I just cited, if I had 7 cars in one bike car, and I opened up that additional car for 3 more bikes to make 10, and that happened to be the max allowed for that train. You may be on the platform with your bike and see that head car I just opened for the 3 additional bikes might be very empty except for those 3 bikes and a few people in there. So I would tell you we are full on bikes and you would say no way look at all the room you have in that car. Bottom line is if 10 were capacity for that train I still wouldnt let you board even though we have room and thats totally within the rules. Who knows, we may get 3 wheelchairs on at the next stop and then I would need that room where I put your "extra" bike over capacity and you would have to get off anyway. Hope that makes it a bit clearer.
Rich S said:I've had nothing but good experiences from Metra conductors. I've always had a bungee and just been nice to them. Last fall there was a group of us that picked up the Metra at Flossmoor and the conductor was nice enough to open a car for us since the cars up front were crowded.
Which leads me to my question. Steve, are you aware of any instances where a conductor denied a biker boarding even when there were train cars that could still be opened? I've noticed that conductors are sometimes very reluctant to open additional cars. It's understandable because there's more train to manage but I would write to complain if I was denied boarding a train that still had dark cars.
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On a personal note, for the few who have commented on my job let me be clear. I like what I do, I came here to post about it to hopefully shed some light on a few of the questions , problems people have had with bikes on trains to try and clear them up and yes , give my personal opinion on them. Sorry if its not p.c. or anything. This has been a nightmare for both sides since it started and hopefully Im giving you guys a little better perspective when you do run into that conductor who seems a little grumpy when you bring your bike on board as to why I...I mean he may be acting that way. Im not quitting my job because of it, matter of fact the more I read in this thread the angrier I am with management rather than the cyclist . Couple of suggestions here seem to make sense but folks you have to keep in mind things like removing seats for bikes ( wont happen), buying special coaches with hooks, having 1 coach totally dedicated for bikes isnt going to happen anytime soon. Metra uses every available coach they have right now, they have zero money to build additional ones and the ones they do buy will be to move people, not bikes. These are things they shouldve done BEFORE they allowed bikes on trains instead of trying to shoehorn them in on the equipment they were already using with zero modifications / allowances for them. Its truly dumbfuckery to the highest order.
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Permalink Reply by Steve Weeks on
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It wouldn't be permissible to put the bikes on the outside of the train cars because there are very strict limitations to the maximum width of the cars for clearance purposes. At most they could be hung on the front or back end, but I wouldn't want *my* bike there, if for no other consideration than its being exposed to the elements (and sometimes the trains get other stuff on them that you wouldn't want on your bike!).
Eventually there has to be dedicated space inside the train, optimized for getting the bikes on and off quickly.
Of course, there is the "folder" option in the meantime. :-)
Steve
SlowCoachOnTheRoad said:...surely it would be easy enough to add a bunch of clasping hooks to the edge of trains that bikes could just be placed on by biking passengers (like the ones we use when we carry our bikes on the back of our cars, but more user friendly so that train schedules aren't seriously impacted) - say 4 bikes per carriage?
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Permalink Reply by bobweiser on
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+1
i'm up for doing something, anybody else?
notoriousDUG said:Complaining without doing something about it is nothing but bitching and that never got anybody anywhere.
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Permalink Reply by igz on
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im up for scheming up options to address the issues. but we would be largely preaching to the choir if we didnt have the immediate audience of a representative from Metra. we need a meaningful conversation, need to know budgets, need to know non-negotiables on their terms, need to know real costs associated with some of this stuff.
Steven, thank you for reconsidering the source of your frustration. as i mentioned earlier, we side with you on this. we are not the enemy, and the enemy of our enemy is our friend. not that Metra management is truly an enemy, but it is the source of that frustration.
i really dont want to take away from people who casually or recreationally use bikes on Metra, but as a matter of policy implementation, maybe we can start with commuters, daily bike/train users. if there was a way to identify these users, they would have exclusive permit to the train (while following the too full policy). this is easy with a monthly pass (which most bike commuters use), have a B stamped on it as that permit, or sell a separate "black out pass" for such individuals (while maintaining the too full policy). Metra also needs to review ridership numbers on each train during these events. i know these hard fact data will show that a blanket policy is not the right move and it might even show lost revenue potential.
this will only help further understand the need for bike accommodation. right now, i doubt there is any to use as evidence to show there is a need. its not a fix, but i think a step in the right direction.
robert hsiung said:+1
i'm up for doing something, anybody else?
notoriousDUG said:Complaining without doing something about it is nothing but bitching and that never got anybody anywhere.
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great, that's 2 of us. i was thinking it would be nice to start with a committee that included representatives from a range of stakeholders. there's conductors, commuters, recreational riders, and i guess passengers. i'm a recreational rider. how about you?
anybody else want to be part of the solution?
igz said:im up for scheming up options to address the issues. but we would be largely preaching to the choir if we didnt have the immediate audience of a representative from Metra.
robert hsiung said:+1
i'm up for doing something, anybody else?
notoriousDUG said:Complaining without doing something about it is nothing but bitching and that never got anybody anywhere.
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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on
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I guess you haven't ridden an inbound Rock Island train on a weekend. I regularly see passengers who bring bikes from as far as Joliet to ride in the city.
Cameron 7.5 mi said:I wouldn't expect Divvy to have much impact. From my antidotal evidence, most of the passengers brining bikes are city residents headed for a suburban destination so Divvy wouldn't help them.
Karen Laner said:I'm interested in whether or not the DIVVY system affects the number of bikes on Metra. Perhaps a discussion next summer on this?
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i had a meaningful conversation with one of my inbound conductors yesterday. i asked him "do you hate bikes"? he responds "yes!. im assuming you wanted an honest answer". i did, and i got one.
but he was quick to clarify his position.
"you know, i dont hate you guys, you commuters. you have your shit together, you are organized. you have your bungees, you know what order everyone is getting on and off. i dont have to worry about you guys".
it seems this theme resonates throughout the conductorship. its the uneducated on the matter that cause issues. i mentioned that Metra struggles at communicating their policies, blackouts, etc. and he asked "does it". i realized i wasnt 100% certain, so i promised i would try to find that info, how easy/difficult it would be.
i went to the metrarail.com site. i starred at the screen for a bit. nothing about bikes. not a word, not an icon. (a big bicycle graphic would be perfect - click on me!). i kept scanning. then, on the top menu - "Riding Metra". ok, yes i want to ride metra. click. scan scan scan - ah, there - third from last on the side bar - "Bikes on Trains".
maybe not entirely intuitive (which i unfortunately do believe we need to dumb everything down that is accessed by the general public), but its there, just two clicks away once on the site. i still think a big bicycle graphic that links to that page would be great.
but that link does give you all the details (though larger print would be helpful). you have a list of blackout dates, age restrictions, ADA provisions and bike amount allowance on each train (not to be confused with train car), and a list of 14 additional rules, all of which are reasonable (except 5 - which is open to subjectivity; and 6 - what if you cant lift a bike up them steep stairs, just help the old lady out).
its not unreasonable for a metra user to look this info up. but getting them to understand they need to look this info up is another story
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