Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Mike Bullis 5.5-6.5 miles on June 22, 2012 at 3:02am

What Jeff Schneider said.

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Permalink Reply by Vondo on June 22, 2012 at 3:32am

I like the part about how they used witnesses and video to determine his speed was " up to 35mph" so, basically he was going the speed limit, but they make it sound like he was going 70 or something.

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Permalink Reply by Sue Clark on June 22, 2012 at 4:00am

The way his blog posts reads, the light was turning yellow as he was approaching the intersection but he was "committed". Even if 35 is the limit, it's too fast if you can't stop in time. He was coming down a fairly steep hill into a intersection with about 3 streets (17th is kind of odd there) coming together, a BART station, and the end point of the F-line streetcar. On top of all that, Castro and Market have a lot of shops, etc., so there's a lot of foot traffic at that intersection. In addition, Market Street, 17th to the West, and Castro are all pretty major for car/bus traffic. 

Sort of like riding a steep hill down into Damen/North/Milwaukee in Wicker Park and wondering why you're expected to stop for the cars.

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Permalink Reply by GabeW (not the other Gabe) on June 22, 2012 at 4:20am

My interpretation based on his fastest route attempt and gps tracking is that he sounds a bit like the cycling equivalent of this guy.

While 35 mph isn't technically speeding (? don't know what was posted - and Alex Roy most definately broke the speed limit) it is pushing the machine really hard for most cyclists.  That's race speed in a crit, tour, etc. 

Given the discovered "purpose" of his riding (obviously it's more than a race, but once that element is discovered good luck getting the authorities to look past it) I think the thorough prosecution is expected.  If Alex Roy killed someone on one of his record attempts it would be covered too.

And I hate to say it because I'm not anti car, but fatalities happen and to an extent it's a numbers issue.  With congestion comes accidents.  Good drivers are good cyclists in traffic.  Bad drivers are bad cyclists in traffic (as a generalization based on temperament, etc..) As bikes become more dominant these types of stories will shift from a spotlight issue to just another traffic accident imo.

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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on June 22, 2012 at 5:05am

One of the news stories said the guy was doing 35 mph in a 25 mph zone, so he technically was speeding.  That, combined with the witness descriptions of how he was riding (not making any attempt to brake or really avoid hitting peds), makes him the worst kind of cyclist in my eyes - the kind who gives all of us a bad name.  We don't need that right now.

Yes, congestion breeds accidents, but lower speeds make them more avoidable.  I was nearly hit by a cyclist who ran the red light on Van Buren at Clark this a.m.  He wasn't making any attempt to slow down, but he was going much slower than the SF asshole, so it was much easier for me to avoid the collision.

GabeW (not the other Gabe) said:

My interpretation based on his fastest route attempt and gps tracking is that he sounds a bit like the cycling equivalent of this guy.

While 35 mph isn't technically speeding (? don't know what was posted - and Alex Roy most definately broke the speed limit) it is pushing the machine really hard for most cyclists.  That's race speed in a crit, tour, etc. 

Given the discovered "purpose" of his riding (obviously it's more than a race, but once that element is discovered good luck getting the authorities to look past it) I think the thorough prosecution is expected.  If Alex Roy killed someone on one of his record attempts it would be covered too.

And I hate to say it because I'm not anti car, but fatalities happen and to an extent it's a numbers issue.  With congestion comes accidents.  Good drivers are good cyclists in traffic.  Bad drivers are bad cyclists in traffic (as a generalization based on temperament, etc..) As bikes become more dominant these types of stories will shift from a spotlight issue to just another traffic accident imo.

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Permalink Reply by Chris B on June 22, 2012 at 6:17am

I believe I've read quite a few near-miss stories where the biker was speeding down a hill. Something to learn from I think.

But if the article is true he definitely is in the wrong. It reminds me of cars I see downtown during afternoon rush hour laying on the horn and accelerating through crosswalks with people already in them, speeding to get home.

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Permalink Reply by S on June 22, 2012 at 6:53am

Isn't it a bit much to expect people to thank someone for obeying the traffic rules.  It's not as if you thank people for not stealing and to expect otherwise seems a bit odd.

Serge Lubomudrov said:

I get sometimes funny looks from cyclists who run red light while I'm waiting for the signal to change. Like I'm blocking their way.

But not once I was thanked by pedestrians for obeying the signal. People notice.

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Permalink Reply by David Barish on June 22, 2012 at 7:48am

It looks like he made a literally fatally bad decision.  Nobody should make anything out of the fact that he has pleaded not guilty. This is not inconsistent with the reports that he seems to feel some remorse. He can't plead guilty until he works out a deal with the prosecutors.

 

As regards the speed limit... try using your brakes on your car when going 35 mph.  Not too difficult.  Now try doing that on your bike, while descending...   ...    .l..  enough said.

I was visiting my brother in law in SF once.  After a delightful day of walking up and down everywhere I asked, "how does a kid ever learn how to ride a bike here?"

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Permalink Reply by David Barish on June 22, 2012 at 8:09am

You want to brake hard as you are now trying to rapidly decelerate.  In order to brake fast enough you are lkely to vault over your handlebar. 35 mph is no big deal in a car but its a huge deal on a bike. If you are facing downhill its that much easier to vault. I've vaulted a couple times. It aint no fun.

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Permalink Reply by Tiberculosis on June 22, 2012 at 8:53am

In California if a driver kills someone, in a car, pedestrian, cyclist...it's vehicular manslaughter. When I moved here and found it that's not the case, it was a big WTF moment for me.

Jeff Schneider said:

To me, the strangeness is not that so much effort is being put into prosecuting a cyclist.  That seems justified, given the circumstances of the incident (if - big if - you can believe the "facts" as presented by the paper).  The real strangeness is that homicide committed with motor vehicles is (I think) almost never prosecuted so thoroughly or reported in such detail.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on June 22, 2012 at 2:33pm

Lesson learned.  

If something bad happens don't talk to anyone but your lawyer.  Don't blog about it, don't make  statements to the cops, don't say squat.  They'll use it to hang you.  This is how the world works today.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on June 23, 2012 at 1:29am

Yes Howard, a MILLION time YES!!!

I think I've hot-linked that exact video a hundred times into this, and many other internet forums.

Also the Flex Your Rights series of videos. 

Never forget that cops are under no compulsion to tell you the truth.  The Supreme Court has upheld that they can tell you any story, make any fake deal to trick you, feed you any load of BS to get you to confess to a crime, to give up your rights willingly, and to cooperate in the investigation against you.  They don't have to tell you the truth and can "bargain" with you on "going easy on you" in bad faith.  

But if YOU lie to them they will hang you for it.   Everything you say can and will be used against you in court if it helps the case against you.  If you make a statement it's almost impossible to phrase  it in a way that can help you and it can always be used against you.   DO NOT SAY ANYTHING.    Do not wave your rights to search, to privacy, to self-incrimination.  And for god's sake do not LIE to them or ever change your story in the slightest degree.

Do not believe their stories about them going easy on you if you cooperate or consent to a search.  The cops job is not to be prosecutor -but to be an investigator.   It's the job of the prosecutor to charge you so there is no way they have the choice to "go easy on you."   If they tell you this they are merely LYING to you to get you to cooperate in hanging yourself. 

 

h' said:

You (and everyone) should watch this, or at least listen to it while going about your morning routine or whatever:

James BlackHeron said:

Lesson learned.  

If something bad happens don't talk to anyone but your lawyer.  Don't blog about it, don't make  statements to the cops, don't say squat.  They'll use it to hang you.  This is how the world works today.

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