Red Light Cameras - Pro or No?
I've noticed that our friends at the ATA have become quite vocal in support of red light cameras. I wonder if camera-love is widespread among their membership base (in which I'm included). I always ride when I'm not working, but I have to drive on the clock, and I've been nailed twice. Kinda rubs me the wrong way, especially because Chicago seems to have the shortest yellows I've ever seen. Opinions?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Bob Kastigar on
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Check the POSTED speed limit on the street - it's 30 MPH. The length of the yellow light is in proportion to the speed limit. If you're driving over the speed limit then the length of the yellow light is too slow. The solution: don't speed.
If you're not speeding then the stop for the yellow warning is not dangerous.
This "shortest yellows" is a canard that's been started ever since the red-light-cameras started.
Next: I hope the put the cameras mid-block and use them to ticket speeders.
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Permalink Reply by Jessica on
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You wanna know that I think?
I think if it were that damn easy, Chicago would have done it already.
I think there are other factors at play, and I don't think they involve the red light cameras.
I think someone needs to be more responsible while driving and they wouldn't have to worry about getting caught, and I think that they need to pull up their big girl panties. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
If all Chicago had to do was make the light longer, and put a 2 second 'all red' to make the intersections safer, politicians would be clamoring to get that on their resume. There is SOMEthing holding that decision back. Considering I've never had a red light ticket, I don't really care. If someone cares to find out, super! (We have red light cameras all over around here, so no, it's not cause they don't exist.)
In the mean time, I suppose that we'll all have to drive like adults; ya know, going the speed limit and all that.
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Permalink Reply by mike w. on
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Basically. my issue is this: the camera is essentially a robo-cop. It does as programmed. If i get busted by a real live eye-winess cop, that's my own lookout. i can go to court and confront my accuser, win or lose. Okay, Fine.
Getting caught by a bot (even when the films are viewed by an anonymous "law enforcement officer") just strikes me as basically unconstuitutional -you never get to confront the accuser. Want to appeal? Pony up first, lose anyway and cough up more dough. Yeah, i understand that most traffic courts operate that way in general, but what ever happened to the "presumption of innocence" which is supposed to be a basic tenet of our legal system? What we have now is the burden of proof is shifted to the accused, which strikes me as Napoleanic. We're not in France or Mexico...
And, oh, BTW i often see these things flash people who have NOT entered an intersection. What if one gets stung because of a technical hiccup?
Even though i'm pretty good about such things as speed limits and lights, and so far haven't been pinched, i do have a problem with the whole robo-cop, One Nation Under Surveillance thing that seems to be becoming the accepted norm in this country. IMHO, the whole camera thing seems just another Revenue Stream... something every pol loves.
End of rant. Peace. Out...
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I agree with what you're saying. I think the appeal system should be a little more 'innocent until proven guilty'. However, it seems like the majority of people whining and crying are those who got caught breaking the law.
One more thing: These lights, speed limits, and roads are designed by Civil Engineers. They DO know the physics behind it, and I'm sure haven't made it impossible to stop in time, assuming you're following all the other rules of the road.
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Permalink Reply by Bike Bloke on
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That's even better than the multiple flashes I saw when a funeral cortege went by.
Davo said:I think its hilarious when critical mass goes through those intersections and the cameras are taking loads of pictures of us on bikes.
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Personally I'm for RLCs. I would like to see other cameras too that catch people 'cellphone driving' and texting. I consider these people the most dangerous on the road today.
There was an article in the Trib a few months ago, of which the salient points were:
1. Tickets are not automatically generated. Each case is reviewed by a traffic cop.
2. You will get a ticket if you do a right turn on red without coming to a complete stop beforehand.
3. If you are already over the line waiting to turn left behind another left turner, you are allowed to complete the turn after the change of lights.
4. The CPD's evidence against you should include a video clip accessible on line. If, after seeing the clip, you feel you have been wronged, contest it!
I'm surprised no one else mentioned this Trib article.
by the way, who or what is the ATA? I thought it was a defunct airline....
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I had great fun accidentally setting off the RLC at Fullerton and Narragansett on my bike. I was westbound on the sidewalk along Fullerton (Riis Park). The lights went red and I took advantage of the stopped traffic by bumping off the sidewalk before the crosswalk and then crossing on the crosswalk. Cue the light show. Fun!
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Permalink Reply by Jack on
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I have been nailed by the auto-ticket machine once. My situation was basically: I was coming up on an intersection going about 5 over, light turns yellow and I glance in the rearview to see a craptastic beater behind me. Now, split second decision... slam on brakes (not to the Lock 'em up leve, but quick decelleration) or roll through. I didn't know it was a red light robo-cop intersection. I chose to run the "pink" light since I really didn't want to trust the guy behind me to stop. I know the guy behind me got a ticket too, as his car was in the photo that they sent along with my $100 ticket.
In retrospect, I chose wisely I feel. Sure, I paid $100 for rolling through an intersection 0.12 seconds after it turned red (really, they give you the time). But I didn't get rear ended by a clunker and have my car in the shop and an increase in my insurance. That would have cost me at least double the price of the ticket for just the inconveinence.
As for the "short yellows" these red light cameras are strictly a money maker for the city. I don't think the city really has any intention of making the intersections safer. Just my couple of pennies worth...
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i think it's important to remember that the RLC is a money-maker not simply because of the fines collected, but also even after the pecentage kicked back to the contractor , the municipality in question makes money by not having to lay on the manpower for extra traffic cops (labour costs, vehicles, insurance, gas, blahblahblah...) IT'S NOT ABOUT SAFETY, folks, it's just a lucrative revenue stream.
Cameras are cheaper than cops.
If i eff up driving, i'd much rather answer to a live cop and take the hit then and there than be stuck by some anonymous bot via the USPS a month or two later.
The old Civil Disobedient in me just bristles at the increasing video survellience the American public has come to accept as the norm. RLCs are just a small symptom of a much larger disorder. How much observing of our daily lives by persons unkown and unaccoutable are we willing to tolerate? Every time i turn around it seems there's yet another camera gazing down. Is this really about safety or just an Illusion of Safety?
Boiled frog, anyone?
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Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on
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I have been looking through the most current "Rules of the Road" for Illinois and I still cannot find this supposed law that you can't enter the intersection when waiting to make a left turn. So, I again beg to differ. I would love for you to cite something more than a time you were ticketed.
I was referring to the illegal act of taking off from a green light and hitting a car that had been waiting to make a left turn. So I think I did read your post and I don't think you pointed this out. I am sorry I was not more clear.
Sate law permits a car to continue the left turn even after the light has turned red, which is why I do believe it is very lawful to enter an intersection while waiting to make a left turn.
Just wanted to be clear about what I was arguing. Again if you or anyone else can show me a law that specifically states that you cannot enter an intersection from a left turn lane while waiting to make a left turn I would appreciate it. I do this both while I am biking and driving and will continue to do so until I am shown that it is unlawful, because frankly I haven't been able to find such a law.
citations:
"to oncoming traffic when making a left-hand turn. If you enter an intersection while the light is green, you may finish your turn even though the light turns red"
"Left Turns
Give a left turn signal from the proper turning lane.
Obey traffic signs and signals.
Yield the right-of-way to pedestrians, emergency vehicles and other vehicles in the intersection.
Check all approaching traffic.
Point the wheels straight ahead until you actually start to turn.
Complete the turn into the lane closest to you going in your intended direction."
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr...
"Green light – You may go after yielding the right-of-way to any pedestrians and vehicles in the intersection or crosswalk."
http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr...
notoriousDUG said:Um, I think you need to read my posts again, I'm the one who pointed out what you just said...
Congratulations on scoring 100% on the most basic written test the DMV offers, go take the CDL tests and then let me know how well you think you know the rules of the road right now.
mattbikes1 said:I beg to differ. You can not legally enter an intersection until it is clear. Jessie White's most recent literature specifies this quite clearly. I had to take the test to get my Illinois license last fall and got 100% after thoroughly studying the driver's rules of the road for IL.
notoriousDUG said:Technically no but it is common practice; if you are sitting there when the light turns and somebody takes off and runs into you when followed to the letter of the law you are in the wrong.
Trust me on this one, I have gotten the ticket to prove it.
Jessica said:Aren't you allowed to enter the intersection for a left, and allowed to clear it if the light is yellow/red?
And downhill isn't an excuse... speedlimit is the speedlimit, even if you ruin your brakes by riding them. <3 sticks shift for this reason...
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How is being rear ended ever the fault of the person that was hit? I don't think this makes any sense at all. If you are driving a vehicle and following someone you should have control of your vehicle and be prepared and able to make a controlled stop. That is just part of the responsibility of driving. Even if the BMW stopped quick and soon.
David Lieb said:Had he allowed enough distance between himself and the Bimmer to have avoided the accident, someone else's car would have gotten inserted. This is Chicagoland commuting traffic we are talking about here.
The Bimmer reacted in an atypical manner, causing the accident. There is neither reason nor need to stop the moment the light turns yellow. The way Illinois traffic laws are written, yellow does not mean stop and green does not mean go. You are not to enter an intersection under red, but it is allowable (and wise) to do so under yellow. You may not enter an intersection under green until it is clear. By doing the unexpected, the Bimmer was at fault.
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