Cyclist Blowing a Red Light on Google Street View
I came across this image while investigating a bicycle route to Daley Plaza.
And these are the cyclists that give other cyclists a bad name. We can't have anything nice in the City with someone ruining it for everyone else.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by David P. on
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I have little patience for the idea that every time I am out going places I represent a group first. I don't, and this kind of thinking nearly always only occurs when someone has internalized the group in question (in this case, cyclists) as one that is somehow "other". I will not other myself - I am just a guy going places. That out of the way, I don't think this is a very smart red light to run. You are climbing a grade from a stop, so you are not moving very quickly, and even when you don't see traffic coming north on Des Plaines, there are short sightlines and car traffic moves relatively quickly (and you don't), so you can find yourself out in the middle of an intersection with a car bearing down on you. Just wait for your green.
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Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on
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I agree that this particular stoplight isn't a great one to run. I've seen cyclists get surprised halfway through and wouldn't do it myself. I tend to only ever run a light on streets like superior- where the lights only green for like 10 seconds (I think it was The cross at Clark I realized this morning turns green and then INSTANTLY the red hand counts down from 10 seconds) and then you have to wait a minute and a half for a couple cars to cross the cross street, even during rush hour, and otherwise you're staring at an empty intersection wondering wtf.
I also tend to go through t intersections when I'm on the side without a cross street - MKE and elston southbound comes to mind.
I NEVER Run a red if there's a left turn signal for oncoming traffic. I've seen too many cyclists start going after cross traffic's light turns red, and get in the way of the oncoming traffic turning left, who generally is going with the arrow and not looking for cyclists. Going north on MKE at Division comes to mind.
But other people might have other considerations I supposed and I hope they are safe.
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http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/opinion/sunday/if-kant-were-a-new... reminds me of this article I read a few years ago.
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Yes. I was just going to suggest a review of the ideas behind Idaho stops. I'm a really concientious rider, but sometimes the laws built for cars DON'T make sense for bicycles.
foofy q. said:http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/opinion/sunday/if-kant-were-a-new... reminds me of this article I read a few years ago.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Kitzmann on
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+2. It's clear he's in the friggin' clear. No harm no foul. This whole cyclist shaming shit needs to stop. Sometimes the rules don't make sense to obey, when that's the case feel free to break them, I know I do.
dan brown said:+1
Tandemonium said:Yawn...
No cars up Des Plaines all the way up the hill to the Jewel, car in front looks to be turning left. No chance of traffic from other direction due to green right turn arrow (car in front has a left turn arrow at that time). Walk signal might just have turned and he got a 1 second head start. He could be practicing an Idaho stop, can't tell. If your ride this route everyday you would understand the dynamics of this intersection.
Anyways, not like it is legal, but again it is a pretty controlled situation this guy clearly understands. I wouldn't get too worked up about it. I'm sure you could find cars in similar situations with ease:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mBQBeNSvNtk
Why is it that if we see a cyclist behaving bad 'we all get a bad name', yet when a motorist breaks the law people say 'what an idiot' and move on?
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So what makes you so special that you are entitled to break the rules? You are sharing the same road as the car. Why shouldn't you follow basic rules of the road? So if I am driving a car, and there's no other car around, I can run the red too because I am in the clear? If everyone follows your "rules can be broken because YOU feel like it", then we may as well not have rules...
Adam Kitzmann said:+2. It's clear he's in the friggin' clear. No harm no foul. This whole cyclist shaming shit needs to stop. Sometimes the rules don't make sense to obey, when that's the case feel free to break them, I know I do.
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Jacky Chau said:So what makes you so special that you are entitled to break the rules? You are sharing the same road as the car. Why shouldn't you follow basic rules of the road? So if I am driving a car, and there's no other car around, I can run the red too because I am in the clear? If everyone follows your "rules can be broken because YOU feel like it", then we may as well not have rules...
Adam Kitzmann said:+2. It's clear he's in the friggin' clear. No harm no foul. This whole cyclist shaming shit needs to stop. Sometimes the rules don't make sense to obey, when that's the case feel free to break them, I know I do.
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I don't have much patience for cyclist-shaming, either, but I think it's worth remembering that - when other cyclists engage in it, anyway - they're kind of scared.
Scared, that is, that drivers are going to use their overwhelming political power to make what is, right now, still a pretty free and fun cycling experience into a far more-constrained one. They did it with pedicabs. What else is conceivable? No-go areas downtown for bikes? Licensing and insurance requirements that make no sense for cyclists?
You may not think that it makes sense to observe red lights religiously - and I agree with you that it often doesn't make sense - but these cyclist-shaming cyclists tend to view the alternative as: getting license plates for each of their bikes, finding an insurer offering legally-required coverage at a reasonable rate, and always biking with at least a few pieces of paper and ID. I know I'd prefer to wait stupidly at a few extra lights, personally.
Now, maybe that's the wrong way to view it. Maybe viewing it that way only legitimates the risk and makes it more likely. Maybe cyclist-shaming cyclists are only helping to bring about the crackdown they fear. But I think it's much more about that fear than it is any kind of indignant pedantry about red lights, like it is when drivers grouse about it.
Adam Kitzmann said:+2. It's clear he's in the friggin' clear. No harm no foul. This whole cyclist shaming shit needs to stop. Sometimes the rules don't make sense to obey, when that's the case feel free to break them, I know I do.
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*applause*
As far as drivers getting tickets for violating traffic laws, it can't be more than a very small percentage, based on what I see people doing every day.
Simon Phearson said:But what really gets to me? It's the drivers parking bike lanes, it's the drivers veering into the bike lane and suddenly slowing to make a right turn right in front of me, it's the bus drivers that only partially overtake me before starting to edge over toward the curb to make a drop-off, it's the drivers who treat the bike lane like it's an optional lane of traffic, it's the drivers who don't signal their turns or cheat red lights, it's the drivers who interpret a full stop behind another car that's stopped at a stop sign as good enough, it's the drivers who drive like they're tied to the car in front of them with zero independent awareness of those around them, etc., etc. In other words, it's the drivers whose erratic and unpredictable behavior keeps me guessing about all driver behavior, putting me constantly at risk, that I worry about, not the cyclists "setting a bad example" by proceeding through the Dearborn PBL red bike lights with through traffic's green light or running a poorly-timed red light.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Schmoe on
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It's this American obsession with universal application of all rules. Where we can't, as reasonable adults, take context into account (see zero tolerance). If you're at an intersection in a car, in the middle of nowhere, at a red light, the only reason I won't go through is because of potential legal consequences. I'm perfectly capable of deciding when and where to obey or disobey traffic laws, both on a bike and a car. I've done 120 mph in the Nevada desert in an uninhabited valley. I've run red lights in a car in sketchy parts of town when I'm concerned for my safety. I'm not "special". But my cognitive abilities and skills on a bike aren't the same as others. Some are much better than me, some are much worse. But we all make decisions about when and where to obey or disobey rules. It doesn't automatically make people arrogant or self-centered.
The time I run the red lights the most, is headed N/S on Broadway. The intersections at Hollywood and Bryn Mawr both have left turn lights, and during rush hour, cars consistently block the whole intersection by making the turn w/o seeing if there's room for them to clear the intersection. So I can either: wait for them all to clear the intersection (doesn't always happen in that light cycle), dart between them as they're stretched across the intersection, and avoid cars to my left trying to get around them (dangerous, because it's hard to see the west-bound lane), OR, before the left turn arrow comes on, dart across the intersection. No one is inconvenienced, gets hurt, or has to take me into account at all. And I'm sick of cars coming at me from that left turn lane, even when they see me. I don't do it every time. But I do it when I want to get to work faster, and I don't think I'll inconvenience anyone.
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Permalink Reply by Chitown_Mike on
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I gave up "policing" other cyclists. I stop for all red lights and stop signs. I don't make allowances for people's, IMO, poor choices to blow lights and such on their bikes by moving out of their way. I am usually a faster rider than most I see so if I pass and get to a light before them, I stop where it is safe for me. Sometimes that is in their way, sometimes not, either way I don't say anything anymore.
Last time I said something I was asked if I was the bike police, which I responded no but trying to improve the public's opinion of cyclists in Chicago as not a bunch of scofflaws. I was told that because this other rider does not own a car and commutes all year round they are exempt from laws and do not need to stop at reds. I wished them all the best at avoiding becoming a hood ornament (I was heated at this point, whatever).
Later that day I was almost hit by a fellow cyclist who decided to blow a light I was stopping at and cruise right in front of a CPD officer, the cop looked at him, then me, then shrugged and drove in the opposite direction. If the cops don't care, neither do I. I say let them run lights, and then they can deal with any costs associated with their maneuvers.
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Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on
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Funny you mention this. I overheard a blip of a conversation at Ardmore and Kenmore about cyclists not paying attention or just blowing through. Now that's the end of the bike trail with a bike lane going both ways on a one way street but riding in any manner that cars can't makes you look like a scofflaw or reckless.
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I'm totally fine with that. Besides, it's not whenever you feel like it, it's when there is clearly no reason to obey said rule (It's why people run red lights in cars in Detroit). If the cost is clear, I'm gonna go, sorry. You're free to wait till the light turns green. But if I'm not putting you or anyone else in danger, don't freak out on me just because I didn't go to Safety Town.