Chicago bike sharing will be known as Divvy, be Chicago flag blue
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Duppie on
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ooooh! you have an ironic flute? gotta see that. They are much nicer than a sad trombone, I heard.
Jennifer on the lake said:$101? Is that seriously not a big deal to most people? Dang, to afford use of a bike that's not even mine, I'd have to sell one that is. Or possibly either my sad trombone or my ironic flute.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on
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You're thinking of this the wrong way. You're not supposed to keep hopping from station to station all day. Bike share programs are meant for short rides, 30 mins or less. If you are using it to ride for two hours at a time, then bike share is perhaps not for you.
Daniel G said:The B-cycle I used for a day in Boulder, Colorado was very usable. It operated on five dollars daily with hourly check-ins at one of their two dozen or so stations. A half-hour becomes a very short time if much of it is going to be allocated to locating and getting to the next station.
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Permalink Reply by Justin B Newman on
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The station density in Boulder is much lower than it's expected to be in Chicago. Also worth noting that even in nearby Denver, maximum ride time is 30 minutes. Having used B-Cycle in Denver for a week this past fall, 30 minutes felt quite reasonable to me.
Daniel G said:
The B-cycle I used for a day in Boulder, Colorado was very usable. It operated on five dollars daily with hourly check-ins at one of their two dozen or so stations. A half-hour becomes a very short time if much of it is going to be allocated to locating and getting to the next station.
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Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on
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I will be interested to see more details of the $101 hold. I assume, for example, that if I am a family of 4 visiting from out of town that the hold would be $404. How long would it take to be released? If I purchased it on a daily basis for 4 days in a row, would I be looking at a $1600 hold? Or would it be released each night at the end of the day? If the hold isn't released right away, I would hope that this "hold" policy for debit cards would be publicized. It certainly would catch me. I have a credit card, but I prefer to put lots of stuff on the debit card or pay cash for financial planning reasons.
What about the "annual" fee. If I buy the annual plan with a debit card do I have a hold in the amount of $101 applied to my bank account for the entire year? Is no hold applied? Is it held for a limited time? If it is for the entire year, how is it refunded if the account associated with the card is "closed" or is a "ephemeral" debit card with a short life.
What if I pay for the annual fee with a credit card that is about to expire and I elect to cancel the card? Will I need to have a valid credit card on file for the entire period of the annual fee?
Lots of questions that I assume will be addressed in the longer term.
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I thought that the purpose of the "bike share" program was to keep the bikes in motion. If you were not supposed to hop from station to station all day, then wouldn't the program prevent this with rules such as no more than two consecutive periods and a 45 minute break is required before the next "share" or no more than 5 shares per day. (to/ from work with stopover at store on the way home and to/from lunch )
I actually do see the "hop on and off" approach working for a tourist. Hop on bicycle near Navy Pier. Ride to Zoo, Return, Share, Ride to Grant Park, Return, Share, Ride to MSI (which will be tricky with 30 minute limit)), Return, Share Ride to Shedd, Return, Share Ride to Hotel Return, Share, Ride to Deep Dish Pizza, Return, Share, Ride to Bars on Lincoln, Return, Share, Ride to hotel, Return. That's at least 8 uses (and perhaps 10 if the ride to/from the MSI cannot be done in 30 minutes) and would requiring hoping on and off all day.
Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:You're thinking of this the wrong way. You're not supposed to keep hopping from station to station all day. Bike share programs are meant for short rides, 30 mins or less. If you are using it to ride for two hours at a time, then bike share is perhaps not for you.
Daniel G said:The B-cycle I used for a day in Boulder, Colorado was very usable. It operated on five dollars daily with hourly check-ins at one of their two dozen or so stations. A half-hour becomes a very short time if much of it is going to be allocated to locating and getting to the next station.
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Well said Cameron.
One thing I would add is that in some occasions the hold is not limited to a debit card, but can happen on a credit card as well. I believe that Enterprise puts a hold on your credit card when you pick up a rental vehicle. I remember that the amount was the expected rental charges + 20-30%.
I am not sure if that is the case with Divvy, though I am sure that they will announce the details in the coming weeks.
Cameron 7.5 mi said:Holds have nothing to do with how luxurious or expensive a transaction is, but instead with the chances that additional money will be owed after the initial card authorisation. Most sales of luxury items would not have a hold because because the final amount is known at checkout. Debit cards holds have replaced the deposit check that used to be common when renting anything from skis to carpet cleaners to jack hammers. Holds are just a way rental agencies protect themselves from loss if you run off with or damage their stuff. It's such a standard business practice for any rental that Divvy's policy doesn't seem unreasonable to me. If the hold is a problem it can easily be avoided by using a credit card.
Jennifer on the lake said:I know what a hold is. I just thought it was more for luxury items that poor people like me can't afford than for something that is supposed to be a supplemental transportation system.
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I think that you are missing the point of the other poster. The point is that this is intended to be a supplement to a transit system run by a Government. Under our system of Government, the services provided by a Government are not intended to be provided only to those with substantial means (who, in fact, are believed capable of acquiring alternate services from the Free Market) but rather are intended to be freely available across society. Skis, Carpet Cleaners, Jack Hammers and the like are not provided by the Government nor are they intended to be a Government Service. This is a crucial distinction.
And, by the way, substantial assets are often provided without "deposits". I Go, the Car Sharing program, requires a valid credit or debit card but does not include a deposit requirement.
Cameron 7.5 mi said:Holds have nothing to do with how luxurious or expensive a transaction is, but instead with the chances that additional money will be owed after the initial card authorisation. Most sales of luxury items would not have a hold because because the final amount is known at checkout. Debit cards holds have replaced the deposit check that used to be common when renting anything from skis to carpet cleaners to jack hammers. Holds are just a way rental agencies protect themselves from loss if you run off with or damage their stuff. It's such a standard business practice for any rental that Divvy's policy doesn't seem unreasonable to me. If the hold is a problem it can easily be avoided by using a credit card.
Jennifer on the lake said:I know what a hold is. I just thought it was more for luxury items that poor people like me can't afford than for something that is supposed to be a supplemental transportation system.
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Permalink Reply by payton on
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Writing just from my experience as a Capital Bikeshare membership for over two years, and occasional user of other Bixi-based systems in Boston, Minneapolis, Montreal, and Toronto; the TOS and fees in Chicago have not yet been announced and will undoubtedly differ... and also, I'm being nice, since you asked nicely without pre-emptively portraying bicycle sharing as class warfare!
First off, here's a good FAQ about pre-authorization holds from a credit union.
The hold is per bicycle, so yes, in Boston for four bikes it would be $404. The prompts on the screen make this explicit: it specifically notes the $101 hold per bike, urges use of a credit card, and prompts users to agree. (It's not buried in the 300-screen TOS that you can just opt to skip.) It looks like Capital Bikeshare has changed its TOS since I last purchased a day pass, and the hold is now $0.01. (That amount super duper qualifies it as among those "luxury items that poor people like me can't afford.") I don't know which model Alta will use in Chicago.
As I understand it, yes, the hold is authorized every time you buy a new daily pass. Here, there's a 3-day pass, so chances are someone would buy one of those instead of three consecutive 1-day passes. Holds typically drop off 1-3 days afterwards.
A pre-authorization hold does not remove money from the account; it merely prevents other transactions from claiming those funds. Thus, there's no "refund."
The hold is only assessed for "casual users" (1-day passes). Since I have an annual membership, there is no hold; instead, I paid $75 up front. I do have to keep a valid card on file for usage fees, in the event I exhaust my 30-minute allotments. (I've paid about $20 in usage fees in the past 9 months, mostly for longer rides when friends visited.) When my credit card was about to expire, and presumably as well if I'd cancelled the card, an automated email asked me to log in and change the card. It works much like car-sharing, in other words.
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The goal of a transit system is to move people, and if debit card holds are both necessary to protect Divvy's bikes while not deterring vast numbers of users, then Divvy has fulfilled its job. Besides, plenty of "Government" owned but privately operated facilities run pre-authorization holds, e.g., the Hyatt at McCormick Place, the Parrot Cage restaurant at the South Shore Cultural Center, etc., and they do so in the course of doing their daily business.
In the end, I really think this is a very small point that you people are zeroing in upon -- one that prior to now has hardly crossed my mind in years of using a very similar system. Bike sharing really is a transformative investment, and one that will change how you think about getting around town. Look at the broader mobility implications, and don't make me feel like I should spend my morning combing through bank TOSes.
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Permalink Reply by Julie Aberman (Hochstadter) on
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I was at that meeting but came after this was discussed. Alderman Pawar was the first alderman to buy a bike share station with ward funds...and will probably be the first to put a bike blvd in the city (on Berteau).
He and most of his staff also bike to work a lot. He's a pretty amazing 30 year old alderman who beat his opponent with I believe 1/10 the campaign funds. I may be getting some of my numbers wrong, but you get the jist.
Cameron 7.5 mi said:The second to last slide of Alderman Pawar's menu money presentation has a map of proposed sites in the 47th Ward.
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