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Messing with stupid drivers...

Road rage is the result.

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Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on April 25, 2013 at 1:27pm

Speaking from my many decades of experience with sharing the road with deranged drivers, even a middle finger salute to a driver that is honking madly behind me will have them pulling up next to me pointing a gun in my direction.

The cyclist in this video I'm certain did something to cause this reaction in the driver but will never disclose it.

It strikes me as sort of like taunting a wild boar when fellow cyclists do things like pounding on hoods, kicking side panels ect. when a driver disregards our safety.

Zoetrope said:

I posted this a couple days ago, but this is a bit of a misleading thread title, eh? Where does it say the cyclist 'messed with' the driver to deserve that?

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on April 25, 2013 at 1:51pm

I'm sorry to post an URL that leads behind an accursed paywall, but there was a relevant piece in the NYT earlier this week:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/is-american-nonviol...

Road rage is not unique to the USA, but as the blogger points out, the USA has a particularly violent culture. The act of driving a car given that it is so alienating, can exacerbate our violent tendencies.

Permalink Reply by grayn8 on April 25, 2013 at 2:48pm
Thanks for the link.

I found it interesting on the statistic link off your link that listed the deaths from assaults that not only was the US high, but that Mexico was almost 4x as high. I'm curious now about China and India as they have the most folks.

Tony Adams 6.6 mi said:

I'm sorry to post an URL that leads behind an accursed paywall, but there was a relevant piece in the NYT earlier this week:

http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/04/21/is-american-nonviol...

Road rage is not unique to the USA, but as the blogger points out, the USA has a particularly violent culture. The act of driving a car given that it is so alienating, can exacerbate our violent tendencies.

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on April 25, 2013 at 2:52pm

The violence in Mexico is probably one outcome of the drug wars and you could say that's true to some extent in the US, as well.

I liked this comment on the article by "Danny P"

"This analysis needs to stop and seriously consider intellectual violence. Discrediting correct people, teaching falsehoods, spreading rumors, tolerating the abhorrent, stoking fear and hatred; all these are tactics used to alter what another person believes with moral flexibility. These plus the normal methods of persuasion and coercion are deployed towards mass mobilization for winning debates and public opinion, resulting in policy choices that either save or destroy millions of lives. To take the extreme, was Nazi fascism really okay up until the killing and violence started? Or was there something wrong with the beliefs and tactics before they ever got there?

The idea that violence should be the last resort is often misinterpreted as "violence should only be used if there are no other options for self-defense." In reality, there is plenty of justifications where one has no choice but violence when the other side uses nothing but words and non-violence. The real justification is about believing you are right that what another group is going to do will have too many negative repercussions to tolerate. Reserving a right to violence, even as a last resort, inherently implies that we are not equal. It means saying "there may come a time where I know better than you, and I can't allow you to do what you want." It is reserving the right to elite intervention. Otherwise, you are just allowing tragedies to pass at the point of a pen instead of a gun."

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on April 25, 2013 at 2:56pm

Maybe you're right, maybe you're not. I don't see any point in saying the cyclist did do anything to taunt the driver when you have no proof. Can you draw from your many years of experience and tell us what good that does anyone? 

Juan 2-8 mi. said:

Speaking from my many decades of experience with sharing the road with deranged drivers, even a middle finger salute to a driver that is honking madly behind me will have them pulling up next to me pointing a gun in my direction.

The cyclist in this video I'm certain did something to cause this reaction in the driver but will never disclose it.

It strikes me as sort of like taunting a wild boar when fellow cyclists do things like pounding on hoods, kicking side panels ect. when a driver disregards our safety.

Zoetrope said:

I posted this a couple days ago, but this is a bit of a misleading thread title, eh? Where does it say the cyclist 'messed with' the driver to deserve that?

Permalink Reply by GabeW (not the other Gabe) on April 25, 2013 at 3:50pm

http://jalopnik.com/how-to-deal-with-bad-drivers-453676241

I'm a big fan of #2.  A couple weeks ago I was at a light waiting to turn onto the inner drive (in my car, so obviously I was a raging lunatic) and it's a single lane but a wide one, and there are only 2 lanes on that one way street.  One to turn left, one to turn right.  I was in the left one.  Then some guy squeezes his car next to mine on the left practically up on the curb.

I caught the eye of his passenger (wife,gf?) and gave them a big thumbs up and pointed to the lane I was turning into.  She slapped him hard and he got real apologetic, started to back up and then tried to wave me through when the light turned.  Well he obviously had some place to be so I just sat and insisted he go first.

I am 100% positive that had I used another finger than my thumb I would have had a nastier driver to deal with when the light changed.  The SO beating him up in the passenger seat probably helped too.

Now, can someone explain to me the culture that says when a car driving along next to a cyclist who runs a red light that cuts off oncoming cars with a green turn arrow, and then proceeds to sit there distracted at the next light when I'm in my car trying to turn right and he is holding me up by sitting in the crosswalk not moving, should then flip me off for tapping my horn?  I was just saying "hey, it's time to go" and his reply was "fuck you".  Why do people on bikes feel so arrogant? 

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on April 25, 2013 at 4:00pm

Don't forget Lateral Violence!
Zoetrope said:

The violence in Mexico is probably one outcome of the drug wars and you could say that's true to some extent in the US, as well.

I liked this comment on the article by "Danny P"

"This analysis needs to stop and seriously consider intellectual violence. Discrediting correct people, teaching falsehoods, spreading rumors, tolerating the abhorrent, stoking fear and hatred; all these are tactics used to alter what another person believes with moral flexibility. These plus the normal methods of persuasion and coercion are deployed towards mass mobilization for winning debates and public opinion, resulting in policy choices that either save or destroy millions of lives. To take the extreme, was Nazi fascism really okay up until the killing and violence started? Or was there something wrong with the beliefs and tactics before they ever got there?

The idea that violence should be the last resort is often misinterpreted as "violence should only be used if there are no other options for self-defense." In reality, there is plenty of justifications where one has no choice but violence when the other side uses nothing but words and non-violence. The real justification is about believing you are right that what another group is going to do will have too many negative repercussions to tolerate. Reserving a right to violence, even as a last resort, inherently implies that we are not equal. It means saying "there may come a time where I know better than you, and I can't allow you to do what you want." It is reserving the right to elite intervention. Otherwise, you are just allowing tragedies to pass at the point of a pen instead of a gun."

Permalink Reply by WillG on April 25, 2013 at 4:12pm

Gabe, I can explain for you. When you're on your bike, it's hard to interpret a honk from a 2,000lb+ hunk of steel as anything other than a threat, no matter the duration of that honk. A vehicle can be, and often is, a weapon. 

I don't think that arrogance has much of anything to do with it.

GabeW (not the other Gabe) said:

http://jalopnik.com/how-to-deal-with-bad-drivers-453676241

I'm a big fan of #2.  A couple weeks ago I was at a light waiting to turn onto the inner drive (in my car, so obviously I was a raging lunatic) and it's a single lane but a wide one, and there are only 2 lanes on that one way street.  One to turn left, one to turn right.  I was in the left one.  Then some guy squeezes his car next to mine on the left practically up on the curb.

I caught the eye of his passenger (wife,gf?) and gave them a big thumbs up and pointed to the lane I was turning into.  She slapped him hard and he got real apologetic, started to back up and then tried to wave me through when the light turned.  Well he obviously had some place to be so I just sat and insisted he go first.

I am 100% positive that had I used another finger than my thumb I would have had a nastier driver to deal with when the light changed.  The SO beating him up in the passenger seat probably helped too.

Now, can someone explain to me the culture that says when a car driving along next to a cyclist who runs a red light that cuts off oncoming cars with a green turn arrow, and then proceeds to sit there distracted at the next light when I'm in my car trying to turn right and he is holding me up by sitting in the crosswalk not moving, should then flip me off for tapping my horn?  I was just saying "hey, it's time to go" and his reply was "fuck you".  Why do people on bikes feel so arrogant? 

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on April 25, 2013 at 6:41pm

Fascinating. Thank you.

h' 1.0 said:

Don't forget Lateral Violence!

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