Hey Chainlink, know what I think is lame?

When a website that claims to be promoting local cycling in the city of Chicago has a banner ad for a site which is one of the many internet discount outlets that make it hard for local bike shops.

Way to go Chainlink, bravo.  Is the advertising dollar worth making things harder on the local shops here in Chicago?

Is this site about serving the local community or is it about being a profit center for it's owner?

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 2, 2012 at 6:17pm

I already have, pursue more local advertising.

Beyond that it's not my business and not my choice, or job, to plan how it runs.  It can do what it wants but I reserve the right to dislike it's decisions.

Joel said:

It was probably a stretch to say she has done more than anyone you know.  If you are happy to volunteer for other cycling things, why don't you think of a constructive way to solve what you see as a problem?  

notoriousDUG said:

Joel, do you even know me beyond this forum?  Are you under the impression that I just sit on my hands at home and do nothing to help anyone?  I've spent a lot of time volunteering for various organizations and spent time working more than a few bike events the last few years.  Just because you haven't seen it does not mean I'm not doing anything to help.

Julie has done a lot but I think saying that she has done more than anyone else is very possibly a stretch.  I'm not trying to marginalize anything she has done but I think that there are organizations who have been around much longer and done much more.



Joel said:

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

Permalink Reply by S on January 2, 2012 at 6:41pm



notoriousDUG said:

 

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

 

If I worked at a coffee shop, auto shop or sat at home on the public dole I would have made exactly the same post.  My feelings on this subject have been the same for several years before I ever worked at a bike shop.

I have no doubt that you're speaking on your own behalf but when you have a thread about the deals that rapid transit is offering on wheel builds and another calling out Julie and chainlink next to each other on the front page, it's hard to not to conflate the two and somehow thing that you might be talking for rapid transit.  It might be unfair but unfortunately that's the way things are sometimes.
Permalink Reply by Dan Korn on January 2, 2012 at 9:52pm

Steel Driver said:

Dan Korn, you've just been unaware, very easily rectified.

http://www.thechainlink.org/page/support-the-chainlink

 

Many users have probably been unaware they can support Chainlink directly!


You're right, I never knew that page existed. There should be a link to it from somewhere obvious, like the main page. That might elicit more donations, which may lessen the need for ads.

And I could be wrong again, but it looks like the particular ad which precipitated this thread is no longer visible.

Permalink Reply by Adam "Cezar" Jenkins on January 3, 2012 at 3:50am

It's been on the front page for a while now. To the right. I think it's on every page.

Dan Korn said:

Steel Driver said:

Dan Korn, you've just been unaware, very easily rectified.

http://www.thechainlink.org/page/support-the-chainlink

 

Many users have probably been unaware they can support Chainlink directly!


You're right, I never knew that page existed. There should be a link to it from somewhere obvious, like the main page. That might elicit more donations, which may lessen the need for ads.

And I could be wrong again, but it looks like the particular ad which precipitated this thread is no longer visible.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 3, 2012 at 9:26am

This is true on many forums but it is not a rule here.

I started posting stuff up because people wanted to hear it.

Nobody is stopping other shops from using the forum to advertise specials.

kiltedcelt said:

Something to consider that I don't think has been brought up is the use of the forum to advertise professional services or sales. On many other forums that I frequent, individual posters are not allowed to post items of a commercial nature - ie. "come by our shop and buy this whatever" - because those are essentially posts of an advertising nature and as such are a go-around to paying to be an advertiser. I'm sure the guys who have placed ads on the side of the page and paid good money for that are not too happy to read postings of things being sold by Rapid Transit or any other bike shop. You want to sell something then pay for the ad space. On most of those other forums that I read there are specific advertising or commercial sub-forums where board visitors can go to see what sort of deals are being offered by various advertisers. If someone is a private individual selling a handful of parts or a bike or two, then there is usually a sub-forum for trading or sales similar to the marketplace sub-forum here on Chainlink. I think the whole issue is a bunch of b.s. If all the adds on the side were from major online retailers it'd be an issue, but they aren't. Most of those ads are from local shops so I don't see where there is any cause for anyone to complain.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 3, 2012 at 9:36am

Good point.  

But there is a fine line between someone who is sharing a legitimate awesome deal they found with other consumers/readers here,  and someone continually whoring their own shop for free in general posts instead of buying ad space.    

The ability for Chainlinkers to share a tip or deal with others here is much of what makes this site so darn useful.  It's one thing for a third-party to share a wonderful bargain at an LBS or a link to an online store that is having a blowout extravaganza or a super-closeout clearance price on a specific item.

When it is a bike-shop employee who is sharing a legitimate bargain or tip to a sale that points to his bosses business that line becomes a little bit blurred.  But I don't think it is absolutely wrong for such a thing to happen as a lowly shop wrench isn't exactly greatly monitarily joined at the hip to his boss.  It's not like they are getting paid six-figure salaries here.  As long as it is done with some degree of restraint and some tact it doesn't offend me -but in the end that is Julie's call as it is her site (or at least the rights to the site to administer what NING lets her touch.)  If she doesn't have a problem with it why should I or anyone else?  And if something here that Julie doesn't mind offends me (or anyone else) I'm free to go elsewhere and find some other community to participate in. 

It's that simple. 

kiltedcelt said:

Something to consider that I don't think has been brought up is the use of the forum to advertise professional services or sales. On many other forums that I frequent, individual posters are not allowed to post items of a commercial nature - ie. "come by our shop and buy this whatever" - because those are essentially posts of an advertising nature and as such are a go-around to paying to be an advertiser. I'm sure the guys who have placed ads on the side of the page and paid good money for that are not too happy to read postings of things being sold by Rapid Transit or any other bike shop. You want to sell something then pay for the ad space. On most of those other forums that I read there are specific advertising or commercial sub-forums where board visitors can go to see what sort of deals are being offered by various advertisers. If someone is a private individual selling a handful of parts or a bike or two, then there is usually a sub-forum for trading or sales similar to the marketplace sub-forum here on Chainlink. I think the whole issue is a bunch of b.s. If all the adds on the side were from major online retailers it'd be an issue, but they aren't. Most of those ads are from local shops so I don't see where there is any cause for anyone to complain.

Permalink Reply by Ace Mann on January 3, 2012 at 10:33am
I wonder WHO wanted the hear about it.The real issue is you using this site for FREE advertisement on this site and then going after Julie for having an advertiser that you don't approve.Who PAID money to be on the site.Thats fine if your shop doesn't value this site to advertise on it.But for you to complain about the way a site is trying to make money.While you use it for your own(FREE)advantage is B.S.It seems that you and your bike store want all the rewards of this site.With Julie taking all of the financial risk.

notoriousDUG said:

This is true on many forums but it is not a rule here.

I started posting stuff up because people wanted to hear it.

Nobody is stopping other shops from using the forum to advertise specials.

kiltedcelt said:

Something to consider that I don't think has been brought up is the use of the forum to advertise professional services or sales. On many other forums that I frequent, individual posters are not allowed to post items of a commercial nature - ie. "come by our shop and buy this whatever" - because those are essentially posts of an advertising nature and as such are a go-around to paying to be an advertiser. I'm sure the guys who have placed ads on the side of the page and paid good money for that are not too happy to read postings of things being sold by Rapid Transit or any other bike shop. You want to sell something then pay for the ad space. On most of those other forums that I read there are specific advertising or commercial sub-forums where board visitors can go to see what sort of deals are being offered by various advertisers. If someone is a private individual selling a handful of parts or a bike or two, then there is usually a sub-forum for trading or sales similar to the marketplace sub-forum here on Chainlink. I think the whole issue is a bunch of b.s. If all the adds on the side were from major online retailers it'd be an issue, but they aren't. Most of those ads are from local shops so I don't see where there is any cause for anyone to complain.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 3, 2012 at 12:48pm

Howard has commented several times about how he wished local shops would chime in when they have stuff in stock or when they have specials; so I did just that.  I mean I guess we could just keep what is a really amazing deal secret to the Chainlink but that seems to benefit nobody.

I love how you, and others, make it sound like I am asking for Julie's head on a pike or something.  All I said was that I thought it was lame, all I did was express an opinion about that one thing.  I don't hate the site, hate Julie , think anyone or anything is evil or out to get anyone.  I just said I thought it was lame; probably one of the softest words of protest that exists...

Just so it is clear, it is not 'my' shop I just work there.  I also want to add that it is not as if these wheel builds put extra money in my pocket.  I'm going to get the same amount of hours regardless of how many people get wheels built but this way those hours are a little more interesting and a bunch of people get a chance to own hand built wheels are a really good price.  AFAIK Rapid Transit has never even been approached by Julie or The Chainlink for advertising but I really have no idea on that as I just fix bikes. 


Ace Mann said:

I wonder WHO wanted the hear about it.The real issue is you using this site for FREE advertisement on this site and then going after Julie for having an advertiser that you don't approve.Who PAID money to be on the site.Thats fine if your shop doesn't value this site to advertise on it.But for you to complain about the way a site is trying to make money.While you use it for your own(FREE)advantage is B.S.It seems that you and your bike store want all the rewards of this site.With Julie taking all of the financial risk.

notoriousDUG said:

This is true on many forums but it is not a rule here.

I started posting stuff up because people wanted to hear it.

Nobody is stopping other shops from using the forum to advertise specials.

kiltedcelt said:

Something to consider that I don't think has been brought up is the use of the forum to advertise professional services or sales. On many other forums that I frequent, individual posters are not allowed to post items of a commercial nature - ie. "come by our shop and buy this whatever" - because those are essentially posts of an advertising nature and as such are a go-around to paying to be an advertiser. I'm sure the guys who have placed ads on the side of the page and paid good money for that are not too happy to read postings of things being sold by Rapid Transit or any other bike shop. You want to sell something then pay for the ad space. On most of those other forums that I read there are specific advertising or commercial sub-forums where board visitors can go to see what sort of deals are being offered by various advertisers. If someone is a private individual selling a handful of parts or a bike or two, then there is usually a sub-forum for trading or sales similar to the marketplace sub-forum here on Chainlink. I think the whole issue is a bunch of b.s. If all the adds on the side were from major online retailers it'd be an issue, but they aren't. Most of those ads are from local shops so I don't see where there is any cause for anyone to complain.

Permalink Reply by Juan 2-3 or more mi. on January 3, 2012 at 1:22pm

Woo dat yo?

Brendan said:

Where's hustla da rabbit?

Juan said:

Warm and fuzzy...

h' said:

Group hug!!

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on January 3, 2012 at 1:40pm

I can see positives to both sides.  I don't mind seeing LBS' post sales etc. pertaining to their store, although it seems like Rapid Transit is the main shop doing that, so maybe that's what people have an issue with.  On the other hand, kilted celt makes a fair point, and it is all the more illuminated by dug's hypocrisy and ("perceived" -h') impoliteness.  I don't know what's perfect for this site, but it's not right to pretend Julie Hochstadter makes site decisions without the input of anyone else.  

Permalink Reply by Adam "Cezar" Jenkins on January 3, 2012 at 2:10pm



notoriousDUG said:

I love how you, and others, make it sound like I am asking for Julie's head on a pike or something.  All I said was that I thought it was lame, all I did was express an opinion about that one thing.  I don't hate the site, hate Julie , think anyone or anything is evil or out to get anyone.  I just said I thought it was lame; probably one of the softest words of protest that exists...

Actually ...

"Way to go Chainlink, bravo. Is the advertising dollar worth making things harder on the local shops here in Chicago?
Is this site about serving the local community or is it about being a profit center for it's owner?"

You just about called her evil. At least profiteering and putting advertising revenue before the community.

Just saying.

Permalink Reply by Jeff on January 3, 2012 at 2:33pm

there was an ad up last week for yojimbos

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