Physically/Mentally Impaired Driving (was "Outsourcing Self Control")

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jack on January 5, 2011 at 1:15pm

A physical handicap is a physical handicap.  I could a medical reason to not walk great distances (in comes the handicap card) that do not affect my reflexes.  A handicap card isn't for people who are handicapped while driving, but rather to shorten the distance to the entrance of said parking lot. 

I don't have a need to hug everyone else, in fact I am all for limiting the number of drivers out there.  Not for physical handicaps that some see as a limitation, but for sub-par mental capacity.  The real problem with drivers (in my eyes) isn't whether someone's car is modified to allow a physically impaired person to drive safely.  It is with people who don't pay attention, can not follow simple driving rules, and assumes everyone should just watch out for them.  Ignorance is the bigger problem, not handicap drivers.  If a driver truely concentrated on the task at hand (DRIVING!), there wouldn't be a fraction of the accidents out there.  No rules or restrictions will change that.

 

Plus, when you are arguing about these handicap spaces not being utilized and going un-used by other drivers it falls on deaf ears.  by the time someone circles the parking lot looking for a close space, you could park on the outskirts of the lot and walk to the store entrance (and wave to the lazy SOB trying to save a few steps on your way in). 

Gabe said:

davo-can u kill someone with the modified bicycle. unlikely. you could beat them to death with it but if ya hit someone with it chances are they wont die. made me giggle though.

jack-a broken left ankle happers nothing in an automatic car. he or she gets no placard they get a walking boot and a bill from the doc.

is it my understanding that no one believes a handicapped person would be at all slower behind the wheel? why r they handicapped then? if nothing is wrong then no discussion is necessary.

everyones need to hug everyone else and not accept obvious things in front of them is narrow minded isnt it?

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 5, 2011 at 1:22pm

Thank you, Jack!  You make some very good points.

Jack said:

A physical handicap is a physical handicap.  I could a medical reason to not walk great distances (in comes the handicap card) that do not affect my reflexes.  A handicap card isn't for people who are handicapped while driving, but rather to shorten the distance to the entrance of said parking lot. 

I don't have a need to hug everyone else, in fact I am all for limiting the number of drivers out there.  Not for physical handicaps that some see as a limitation, but for sub-par mental capacity.  The real problem with drivers (in my eyes) isn't whether someone's car is modified to allow a physically impaired person to drive safely.  It is with people who don't pay attention, can not follow simple driving rules, and assumes everyone should just watch out for them.  Ignorance is the bigger problem, not handicap drivers.  If a driver truely concentrated on the task at hand (DRIVING!), there wouldn't be a fraction of the accidents out there.  No rules or restrictions will change that.

 

Plus, when you are arguing about these handicap spaces not being utilized and going un-used by other drivers it falls on deaf ears.  by the time someone circles the parking lot looking for a close space, you could park on the outskirts of the lot and walk to the store entrance (and wave to the lazy SOB trying to save a few steps on your way in). 

Permalink Reply by BalloonBiker on January 5, 2011 at 1:28pm

There is a continuum of bad drivers...I agree that people who can't drive well, shouldn't be driving, however, as long as they pass a baseline, they should be able to be licensed.  Some people can probably drive better while drunk than some people can drive sober.  Others may be able to drive while on a cell phone better than those who are paying complete attention to the road.

 

Some folks see better than others....others have a better sense of direction or hearing. Some folks drive for a living or even race and likely have better reflexes than most.  There are also some people who have slower reflexes, but are still safe. There are some 90-year-olds who are fantastic drives and there are some 70-year-olds who have had their licenses revoked.

 

On this site:  http://www.cartalk.com/content/features/Special-Needs/remarkable.html  there are stories of people who may be exceptional drivers who also happen to have disabilities...many of them are likely better than average drivers.

 

I think what some are saying on here is that there should be more stringegent guidelines for licensing drivers and stiffer penalties for driving in an unsafe manner.  However, basing this off of a single criteria like disability, while ignoring the fact that there is a continuum on driving ability and reaction times among the general population does seem to be a very narrow-minded.

 

By all means we should have stricter licensing standards and enforcement and a shift away from the absent-minded driving that is done now.  However, singling out classes of people is riduculous and illegal.

Permalink Reply by milesperhour on January 5, 2011 at 2:53pm

You obviously have no idea what a pita it is to get out of a car while casted or in a boot with less than a foot of space.  you can't swing your left leg out like you normally would and put all of your weight on it while raising the rest of your body out of the car.  you have to get both legs out and hoist yourself up. are you really this close-minded?  it's baffling to me.

 

Gabe said:

jack-a broken left ankle happers nothing in an automatic car. he or she gets no placard they get a walking boot and a bill from the doc.

Permalink Reply by Davo on January 5, 2011 at 3:21pm

Well at least he doesn't want to (in reference to handicapped people) "put them down", "out to pasture", or "take them to live on the farm".

Permalink Reply by milesperhour on January 5, 2011 at 5:12pm

it will be a very humbling experience if he ever has a broken leg.  the fact that he doesn't drive will make it even worse.

 

Of all places, Northwestern's parking garage doesn't have handicap buttons to open the doors, which are really heavy.  It's a hospital!!  It's quite fun trying to open the door and hold it while struggling with crutches.  Even more fun is trying to get someone in a wheel chair through without banging the person's foot on something.  You don't realize how handicap inaccesible this country is until you're put in that situation.

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 8:39pm

Man this is great stuff. Davo implies that by stating a fact (that you all wanna ignore): A handicapped person is going to be milliseconds off when responding to a situation that I'm now the boogey man out to get the handicapped. I've run outta title room on my business cards & name plates.

 

How how dare you speak ill of pita, it's G-D delicious! ;-)

 

Jam, can't open the link here, will when i get home. The baseline to get a license is a broken part of the system and part of the problem. And saying singling out a class is illegal is silly. If there were enough studies done to show that a handicapped person's standard driving is equivalent to that of a cell phone user you don't think they would make legislation?

 

And the assumptions you make are wondrous. I actually drive for a living. All day, mon-fri.

Was not me that stated that the handicap spot goes unused (that was a point made by iggi asking if it was fair to everyone else that 50 feet is going unused), was me that said it shouldn't exist.

 

What i point out about the handicap spots is that if the person can't drive the car correctly to park it they shouldn't be on the road. The yellow lines placed next to the driver side door are for the person to have extra space to exit the vehicle. Why is it then that if you spend enough time in the parkin lots you'll see cars parked perpendicular in the spot (seen many times) or mostly in the yellow (would be exiting into parking lot traffic). Or why can't they pull in and out of the spot like an able bodied person? Cause they are handicapped and shouldn't be driving.

 

I won't even get back into the taking advantage of the handicapped placards.

 

How is it that in the little world of the desenting voices here, stating that a handicapped person shouldn't be allowed to drive is tantamount to treason?

 

And since no one answered here it is again:

 

If handicapped people being behind the wheel is ok and the fact they r slower is acceptable than why bother legislating against cell phone use or texting or even drinkin behind the wheel? we can do away with all of it if that's the case. :-) The legislation was put in place because a distracted driver is slower to respond to a situation than a nondistracted driver. So when Jack pointed out that a distracted driver causes problems he was helping my case. ;-) thanks.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on January 5, 2011 at 8:43pm

Seems like a topic a lot of people want to sink their teeth into.

I'm willing to facilitate a round table discussion so we can have a friendly face-to-face discussion.

I can think of a few people with expertise on both sides (disability issues vs. driving cessation therapy) who might be up for joining.

Gave, remind me what your free night is. MPH, what's a good location for you?

Thanks!

Permalink Reply by Minh on January 5, 2011 at 8:59pm

Guys watch Penn & Teller's episode on handicap parking (they were anti-handicap parking) If you have Netflix watch it on instant watch season 5 episode 7. The do bring up good reasons why businesses shouldn't have to include handicap parking. They are also against the Americans with Disabilities Act. I think most libertarians are

 

If anything Gabe is obviously libertarian. :)

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 6, 2011 at 12:21am

Minh, that is the most astute observation made yet. Well done! ;-) (this is said with no sarcasm i know it's hard to tell in the internet) It's really very impressive. ;-)

 

Howie, I can be found on Marauders let's ride around and talk shit and fall down at the end. ;-)

Permalink Reply by Jack on January 6, 2011 at 8:46am

My actual point is that a handicap doesn't mean slower reaction speed and can have nothing to do with driving the actual car, but the mobility after they get out of the car. So the act of driving isn't hampered by a handicap, the foot travel afterward is.  This leads to closer parking spaces.  Kind of like letting the little old lady grab the first seat on the train.  She walked there and can sit anywhere, but why not be a good person and give up your seat?  Gabe, I am not trying to vilify you.  I think your ideas about poor drivers are warrented, but not due to a physical handicap.  Poor drivers are distracted drivers or those who don't have the smarts to follow traffic laws in the first place by choice. 

 

Gabe said:

Minh, that is the most astute observation made yet. Well done! ;-) (this is said with no sarcasm i know it's hard to tell in the internet) It's really very impressive. ;-)

 

Howie, I can be found on Marauders let's ride around and talk shit and fall down at the end. ;-)

Permalink Reply by Davo on January 6, 2011 at 10:13am

I was just stating my opinion ;P

 

I very much agree with the statement about if a person can't park correctly in a handicapped space then they shouldn't be driving. I wish that more people got tickets that affected their driving record for how they cant park. I hate it when I'm ridding and there are a-holes double parked. Or when I am driving and see people taking up two spaces.

 

Maybe if there was a bigger legal risk for crappy driving/parking, then there would be more good drivers out there. I won't hold my breath though.

 

 

 

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