Red Light Cameras - Pro or No?

I've noticed that our friends at the ATA have become quite vocal in support of red light cameras.  I wonder if camera-love is widespread among their membership base (in which I'm included).  I always ride when I'm not working, but I have to drive on the clock, and I've been nailed twice.  Kinda rubs me the wrong way, especially because Chicago seems to have the shortest yellows I've ever seen.  Opinions?  
 

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Permalink Reply by mike w. on March 9, 2010 at 3:04pm
i think it's important to remember that the RLC is a money-maker not simply because of the fines collected, but also even after the pecentage kicked back to the contractor , the municipality in question makes money by not having to lay on the manpower for extra traffic cops (labour costs, vehicles, insurance, gas, blahblahblah...) IT'S NOT ABOUT SAFETY, folks, it's just a lucrative revenue stream.

Cameras are cheaper than cops.

If i eff up driving, i'd much rather answer to a live cop and take the hit then and there than be stuck by some anonymous bot via the USPS a month or two later.

The old Civil Disobedient in me just bristles at the increasing video survellience the American public has come to accept as the norm. RLCs are just a small symptom of a much larger disorder. How much observing of our daily lives by persons unkown and unaccoutable are we willing to tolerate? Every time i turn around it seems there's yet another camera gazing down. Is this really about safety or just an Illusion of Safety?

Boiled frog, anyone?
Permalink Reply by Jessica on March 9, 2010 at 7:26pm
I don't know, but I bet you won't gun it at yellow lights, will you?
Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on March 10, 2010 at 3:19am
I have been looking through the most current "Rules of the Road" for Illinois and I still cannot find this supposed law that you can't enter the intersection when waiting to make a left turn. So, I again beg to differ. I would love for you to cite something more than a time you were ticketed.

I was referring to the illegal act of taking off from a green light and hitting a car that had been waiting to make a left turn. So I think I did read your post and I don't think you pointed this out. I am sorry I was not more clear.

Sate law permits a car to continue the left turn even after the light has turned red, which is why I do believe it is very lawful to enter an intersection while waiting to make a left turn.

Just wanted to be clear about what I was arguing. Again if you or anyone else can show me a law that specifically states that you cannot enter an intersection from a left turn lane while waiting to make a left turn I would appreciate it. I do this both while I am biking and driving and will continue to do so until I am shown that it is unlawful, because frankly I haven't been able to find such a law.

citations:

"to oncoming traffic when making a left-hand turn. If you enter an intersection while the light is green, you may finish your turn even though the light turns red"

"Left Turns

Give a left turn signal from the proper turning lane.
Obey traffic signs and signals.
Yield the right-of-way to pedestrians, emergency vehicles and other vehicles in the intersection.
Check all approaching traffic.
Point the wheels straight ahead until you actually start to turn.
Complete the turn into the lane closest to you going in your intended direction."

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr...

"Green light – You may go after yielding the right-of-way to any pedestrians and vehicles in the intersection or crosswalk."

http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr...

notoriousDUG said:
Um, I think you need to read my posts again, I'm the one who pointed out what you just said...

Congratulations on scoring 100% on the most basic written test the DMV offers, go take the CDL tests and then let me know how well you think you know the rules of the road right now.

mattbikes1 said:
I beg to differ. You can not legally enter an intersection until it is clear. Jessie White's most recent literature specifies this quite clearly. I had to take the test to get my Illinois license last fall and got 100% after thoroughly studying the driver's rules of the road for IL.

notoriousDUG said:
Technically no but it is common practice; if you are sitting there when the light turns and somebody takes off and runs into you when followed to the letter of the law you are in the wrong.
Trust me on this one, I have gotten the ticket to prove it.
Jessica said:
Aren't you allowed to enter the intersection for a left, and allowed to clear it if the light is yellow/red?

And downhill isn't an excuse... speedlimit is the speedlimit, even if you ruin your brakes by riding them. <3 sticks shift for this reason...
Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on March 10, 2010 at 3:31am
How is being rear ended ever the fault of the person that was hit? I don't think this makes any sense at all. If you are driving a vehicle and following someone you should have control of your vehicle and be prepared and able to make a controlled stop. That is just part of the responsibility of driving. Even if the BMW stopped quick and soon.

David Lieb said:
Had he allowed enough distance between himself and the Bimmer to have avoided the accident, someone else's car would have gotten inserted. This is Chicagoland commuting traffic we are talking about here.
The Bimmer reacted in an atypical manner, causing the accident. There is neither reason nor need to stop the moment the light turns yellow. The way Illinois traffic laws are written, yellow does not mean stop and green does not mean go. You are not to enter an intersection under red, but it is allowable (and wise) to do so under yellow. You may not enter an intersection under green until it is clear. By doing the unexpected, the Bimmer was at fault.
Permalink Reply by pistola on March 10, 2010 at 6:26am
How does everyone on this board feel about running red, orange or pink lights on a bike? This may be comparing apples to oranges, but I was wondering how cyclists on this thread felt about being in an intersection that was yellow and about to turn red?
Do we as cyclists get a free pass because we can't get ticketed? Is this as big of a problem as cars running red lights? I'd like to think that because cyclists we don't have the luxury of steel cages or air bags or anti-lock brakes that we are more at risk than cars drivers and therefore should have more concessions/rewards.

Coming to work every morning down Lincoln I hit traffic lights almost every 2 blocks. Of course none of these are timed right for a cyclist. Is the risk of getting run over by a car entering or leaving an intersection worth the reward of beating the red light and not having to stop 22 times in 4 miles (I counted)? I sure as hell think so. Am I the only one here who thinks that drivers in cars who run red lights should get tickets due to the lower risk or being injured?

Just wondering what everyone thought.
Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on March 10, 2010 at 8:42am
pistola said:
Is the risk of getting run over by a car entering or leaving an intersection worth the reward of beating the red light and not having to stop 22 times in 4 miles (I counted)?

No - but thanks for playing. Hopefully you live long enough to play again.
Permalink Reply by pistola on March 10, 2010 at 11:13am
I meant yellow light. Running a red light is illegal.

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:
pistola said:
Is the risk of getting run over by a car entering or leaving an intersection worth the reward of beating the red light and not having to stop 22 times in 4 miles (I counted)?

No - but thanks for playing. Hopefully you live long enough to play again.
Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on March 10, 2010 at 11:16am
Possibly, just make sure you look at the cars in both directions. Hopefully they'll be looking back at you.

pistola said:
I meant yellow light. Running a red light is illegal.

Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:
pistola said:
Is the risk of getting run over by a car entering or leaving an intersection worth the reward of beating the red light and not having to stop 22 times in 4 miles (I counted)?

No - but thanks for playing. Hopefully you live long enough to play again.
Permalink Reply by Joe TV on March 22, 2010 at 1:51pm
Double Post (here and newer red light forum):

WTF????

From today's Trib:
city engineering plans obtained by the Tribune through the Freedom of Information Act show programming instructions dictate three-second yellows at almost all signals tied to cameras. The instructions for the rest of the signals call for four-second yellows
.
Permalink Reply by Bob Kastigar on March 22, 2010 at 2:24pm
pistola said:
How does everyone on this board feel about running red, orange or pink lights on a bike? This may be comparing apples to oranges, but I was wondering how cyclists on this thread felt about being in an intersection that was yellow and about to turn red?

Image this:

Bicycle traveling westbound, crossing a north-south street:
1. Enters the intersection when the light is green.
2. The light turns yellow when the bike is in the right-side northbound lane still going west.
3. The light turns red as the cyclist crosses the left-side southbound lane still going west The left-side southbound lane is occupied by a stopped large truck.
4. Cyclist is now crossing the right side southbound lane on a red light.

This was in the news recently when a cyclist was killed. A significant part of the fault was the car driving in the right southbound lane was actually passing the truck on the right. This by itself is illegal but passing on the right is a time-honored tradition in Chicago and I've never seen it enforced.
Permalink Reply by Duppie on March 22, 2010 at 2:31pm
This is a nice example of cherry picking one sentence out of the whole article and make it sound like the City of Chicago is having shorter yellows just to ticket drivers.
Reading the whole article it becomes clear that Chicago has reasons (lower speed limits), has had 3 second lights for a long time (fifty years) and is comparable to other cities (New York).


Joe TV said:
Double Post (here and newer red light forum):

WTF????

From today's Trib:
city engineering plans obtained by the Tribune through the Freedom of Information Act show programming instructions dictate three-second yellows at almost all signals tied to cameras. The instructions for the rest of the signals call for four-second yellows
.
Permalink Reply by heather s on March 22, 2010 at 3:25pm
This scenario is a little hard to imagine, in Chicago anyway. Three seconds is enough time to cross an intersection if you entered on a green light. Even a big six-corner intersection.

Bob Kastigar said:
Image this:

Bicycle traveling westbound, crossing a north-south street:
1. Enters the intersection when the light is green.
2. The light turns yellow when the bike is in the right-side northbound lane still going west.
3. The light turns red as the cyclist crosses the left-side southbound lane still going west The left-side southbound lane is occupied by a stopped large truck.
4. Cyclist is now crossing the right side southbound lane on a red light.

This was in the news recently when a cyclist was killed. A significant part of the fault was the car driving in the right southbound lane was actually passing the truck on the right. This by itself is illegal but passing on the right is a time-honored tradition in Chicago and I've never seen it enforced.

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