The Chainlink

Traffic 'round these parts dropped off pretty dramatically a few weeks ago... hard to tell from the "I rode today" thread who's still riding, as one would have to conclude that Gene is the only one out there most days by reading it....

Who's sticking it out and plans to continue to ride pretty much every day regardless of weather?

(Was winter 2013;   2014 starts on p. 36;   2015 starts on p. 61)

 

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At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what your bike is rolling on as long as it rolls you home, right?

+1

:-)

Paul Michael Ignacio said:

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter what your bike is rolling on as long as it rolls you home, right?

Well, you are certainly correct about this winter (and actually last) not being what we have been used to in Chicago, and if there were many days with snow/ice I might have a different attitude.  I do like the insurance analogy.  Same analysis for boaters with life rafts--cost a fortune and hope never to use it, but won't go out without one.  

Steve Weeks, DDS said:

Hi, Lisa,

I'm more of an evangelist than a zealot... at least in my own mind. ;-)

See my other posts, and I think you'll see where I'm coming from. I don't take your remarks personally.

Steve

Lisa Curcio 4.0 mi said:

Really, Steve, I had no idea that zealotry could extend to studded tires for bikes ;-)  Please don't take this personally, but for the few days they are needed, I'll just suffer and take the CTA.  

Thanks very much for the review, Steve.  I've been looking at those.  I commute on a mountan bike, but now you've got me thinking these might be great for my recumbent, to get more winter use out of it. 

Since you're on a folder, I'm wondering if maybe you could extend your tire (and component) life even further, by rinsing daily (that Dahon could go into the shower nicely), and throwing some armor-all on the sidewalls now and then. 

Maybe ultimately apply those savings to an extra set of wheels, which you COULD quite easily swap out after looking out the window?  
 
Steve Weeks, DDS said:

On my commuter bike (Dahon Mu XL) I use Schwalbe "Marathon Winter" tires. These are 20" tires inflated to around 55-60 PSI, which works pretty well at my weight (~210). On dry pavement, they are somewhat noisy (think: bacon sizzling) and there is a bit more rolling resistance. For me, these are small inconveniences compared to the peace of mind I get from not having to fear a sudden fall. The studs are tungsten carbide, and do not wear appreciably as a result of running on pavement. The tires themselves wear out before the studs, largely thanks to all the salt used in Chicago. I get about 2 seasons on the rear wheel and 3 seasons on the front.

I usually put these tires on at Thanksgiving or early in December and change back to regular tires in mid-March. It would be nice to be able to throw them on only when they are really needed, but that's a lot of work. I can't get up in the morning and say "oh, look... there's ice on the street; better put on the studs". So I will necessarily be riding on the studded tires on days when they are not needed. It is a reasonable trade-off for me. I *do* have to admit that this winter has been a bit of a disappointment, and I've needed the studs only a couple times so far. Climate change? ;-)

Steve

Rich Evans said:

Hey Steve-

What brand/model tire are you using?  How are they on dry pavement?

 

Rich, I would think that maximizing traction would be more important on a recumbent. Isn't it harder, if not impossible, to put a foot down quickly to stop a spill? (Not being a 'bent rider, I don't know.) Another brand of studded tires you can look at is Nokian. I have those on my mountain bike. Recently I was out riding on a frozen lake... lots of fun if the ice is thick enough! (See image from a couple wintes ago; also an image of a trail that is easily ridden with studs.) Since I don't ride this bike every day, I expect the tires to last 5 to 10 years. FWIW, I'd stay away from tires with *steel* studs; they are cheaper, but the studs wear much faster.

Rinsing the bike daily wouldn't be easy. It isn't necessary for the bike, which has most parts made of aluminum, plastic and stainless steel. I've replaced a number of steel parts, such as brake pivots, with titanium ones that don't rust. I do a major service at the beginning and end of the winter season (lubing the internal hub, greasing just about anything that moves).

The tires don't fail from salt on the sidewalls. Salt gets into the interfaces between the studs and the rubber. The studs themselves (tungsten carbide) are not affected by salt. However, the little "hats" that hold the studs are made of some kind of ferrous metal... which corrodes in the salt. The corrosion products  must be somewhat abrasive, because the wide bases of the stud holders eventually wear through the tire carcass and then you start to see flats. It would not be possible to rinse of the salt from the spaces around the studs without actually removing the studs... which is impossible: each 20" Schwalbe tire has 168 studs, and each 26" Nokian has almost 300! This winter I am riding on 2 tires that show some internal signs that the studs are close to the inside. I have installed "Mr. Tuffy" tire liners to see if I can extend the life of these tires. So far, so good. But these, like all tires and brake pads, are "consumable" items.

I actually do have two sets of wheels ("Winter" and "Summer"), and I change them twice a year. The rear has an internally-geared hub and a roller brake, so there are 2 cables and a torque link to remove. The front is a dynohub, so there are wires to unplug and reattach. Plus both wheels are secured with nuts, not quick-releases. Since I typically catch a 7 AM train and get up at 5:30 anyway, I'd have to get up at least an hour earlier... just to see if I need to swap wheels. <_<  That's not going to happen, I am afraid. Also, what happens if I'm at work when the bad weather hits? Or, as sometimes happens, the streets are clear at home (50 miles away) but icy in the city? Sure, I could take the "L" to/from Union Station, walk or get a cab. But it's easier for me to just leave the tires on. I like to just pull the bike out in the morning and go (past my neighbors sitting in their cars warming up ^_^ ).

Rich Evans said:

Thanks very much for the review, Steve.  I've been looking at those.  I commute on a mountan bike, but now you've got me thinking these might be great for my recumbent, to get more winter use out of it. 

Since you're on a folder, I'm wondering if maybe you could extend your tire (and component) life even further, by rinsing daily (that Dahon could go into the shower nicely), and throwing some armor-all on the sidewalls now and then. 

Maybe ultimately apply those savings to an extra set of wheels, which you COULD quite easily swap out after looking out the window?  
 

Attachments:

anyone out yet today.  Is it slippery

Steve, I've just been getting started on my recumbent, but would agree that traction is probably even more important (especially a short wheelbase/underseat steered model) than on an upright -- but that's more because of the 'bent's "inherent squirrelyness" in handling, particularly at low speeds. Putting a foot out doesn't seem that much tougher and, if spilled, the fall is far shorter. 

That said, I see your point now, re: wheel swapout.  I had assumed you had a derailleur, but wiith a coaster brake/internal hub to deal with, that would be a pain in the patoot. 

I still think you might benefit from rinsing.  Aluminum doesn't rust, but it does corrode.  Also, because salt is so soluble in (particularly warm) water, it would probably flush away more of that stuff that builds up at the tire/stud interface than you might think; even more importantly, it may get out some of the salt in the stud/ferrous interface you mention -- with dissimilar metals there, you probably have a distinct galvanic gradient, that you don't want to tone down as much as possible .  A quick water wash will also get rid of a lot of that grit tht tends to turn all your moving parts into little "component grinders." 

Sounds like you take Metra in to the City, and commute from there.  Great use of the Dahon -- I'm trying to convince my brother to use his the same way.  :)

   
 
Steve Weeks, DDS said:

Rich, I would think that maximizing traction would be more important on a recumbent. Isn't it harder, if not impossible, to put a foot down quickly to stop a spill? (Not being a 'bent rider, I don't know.) Another brand of studded tires you can look at is Nokian. I have those on my mountain bike. Recently I was out riding on a frozen lake... lots of fun if the ice is thick enough! (See image from a couple wintes ago; also an image of a trail that is easily ridden with studs.) Since I don't ride this bike every day, I expect the tires to last 5 to 10 years. FWIW, I'd stay away from tires with *steel* studs; they are cheaper, but the studs wear much faster.

Rinsing the bike daily wouldn't be easy. It isn't necessary for the bike, which has most parts made of aluminum, plastic and stainless steel. I've replaced a number of steel parts, such as brake pivots, with titanium ones that don't rust. I do a major service at the beginning and end of the winter season (lubing the internal hub, greasing just about anything that moves).

The tires don't fail from salt on the sidewalls. Salt gets into the interfaces between the studs and the rubber. The studs themselves (tungsten carbide) are not affected by salt. However, the little "hats" that hold the studs are made of some kind of ferrous metal... which corrodes in the salt. The corrosion products  must be somewhat abrasive, because the wide bases of the stud holders eventually wear through the tire carcass and then you start to see flats. It would not be possible to rinse of the salt from the spaces around the studs without actually removing the studs... which is impossible: each 20" Schwalbe tire has 168 studs, and each 26" Nokian has almost 300! This winter I am riding on 2 tires that show some internal signs that the studs are close to the inside. I have installed "Mr. Tuffy" tire liners to see if I can extend the life of these tires. So far, so good. But these, like all tires and brake pads, are "consumable" items.

I actually do have two sets of wheels ("Winter" and "Summer"), and I change them twice a year. The rear has an internally-geared hub and a roller brake, so there are 2 cables and a torque link to remove. The front is a dynohub, so there are wires to unplug and reattach. Plus both wheels are secured with nuts, not quick-releases. Since I typically catch a 7 AM train and get up at 5:30 anyway, I'd have to get up at least an hour earlier... just to see if I need to swap wheels. <_<  That's not going to happen, I am afraid. Also, what happens if I'm at work when the bad weather hits? Or, as sometimes happens, the streets are clear at home (50 miles away) but icy in the city? Sure, I could take the "L" to/from Union Station, walk or get a cab. But it's easier for me to just leave the tires on. I like to just pull the bike out in the morning and go (past my neighbors sitting in their cars warming up ^_^ ).

Rich Evans said:

Thanks very much for the review, Steve.  I've been looking at those.  I commute on a mountan bike, but now you've got me thinking these might be great for my recumbent, to get more winter use out of it. 

Since you're on a folder, I'm wondering if maybe you could extend your tire (and component) life even further, by rinsing daily (that Dahon could go into the shower nicely), and throwing some armor-all on the sidewalls now and then. 

Maybe ultimately apply those savings to an extra set of wheels, which you COULD quite easily swap out after looking out the window?  
 

This is where we get back into not knowing if someone's advice is useful to us because we don't know anything about their riding and how their commute compares to our own.  If Steve only uses his studded tires for a short ride to the Metra and a short ride from the Metra to his workplace, than I can see why he would feel so positively about them even when we only have 2-3 days in an entire winter that they're useful. This whole time I've been assuming he was riding several hours a day on them on dry pavement...?

My girlfriend just rode from my house in Avondale to Ipsento and says yes; I'll be leaving in a few minutes and so will be careful!

Julie Hochstadter said:

anyone out yet today.  Is it slippery

Good point. My ride is on the shorter side. METRA is about a mile away from my house, and it's about 3 miles from the Western Avenue station to work. Then it's about 2 miles to Union Station, and another mile to home. So, about 7 miles in all. I have done longer stretches on occasion: Union Station to McCormick Place, Western Avenue station to Watertower Place, for example. The longest ride on my folder with studded tires was about 10 miles (I did a century on the folder a few years ago... in the summer!). But the distance isn't important to me; in this weather I would choose to have the studded tires on, and if the ride were too long, well, I'd find another way to get around.

This particular winter, there have only been a couple or three days when the tires really were worth it. There may be more (like tomorrow, maybe). But in past winters, there have been many days when I was glad I had them on the bike. Future winters... who can say?

Ride safe!

Steve

h' 1.0 said:

This is where we get back into not knowing if someone's advice is useful to us because we don't know anything about their riding and how their commute compares to our own.  If Steve only uses his studded tires for a short ride to the Metra and a short ride from the Metra to his workplace, than I can see why he would feel so positively about them even when we only have 2-3 days in an entire winter that they're useful. This whole time I've been assuming he was riding several hours a day on them on dry pavement...?

Weather conditions have been varying widely between parts of Chicago this year I guess. . I ride pretty much every day and as far as I can tell there has only been one morning where studded tires might have been useful (and by that afternoon they would not have been.)

But.... here ya go.  Look out the window and don't hurt yourself with the back-patting :-)

Heh... I'm more likely to get hurt patting myself on the back than falling on the ice. ;-)

Besides, burning off a few extra calories helps me keep my boyish figure. 8-O

Steve

h' 1.0 said:

But.... here ya go.  Look out the window and don't hurt yourself with the back-patting :-)

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