Wheel Building 101 - Spoke Calculations - The Chainlink2024-03-28T19:37:47Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/wheel-building-101-spoke-calculations?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A1139129&feed=yes&xn_auth=noSo I have a Sturmey Archer Dy…tag:thechainlink.org,2021-05-28:2211490:Comment:12080282021-05-28T02:00:05.131ZMatt M. 18.5KMhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/MattM
<p>So I have a Sturmey Archer Dynohub manufactured in 1970 in perfect working order. Here are my dimensions.</p>
<p>36 hole</p>
<p>92mm OLD</p>
<p>Large Flange hole circle diameter 102mm</p>
<p>Small Flange hole circle diameter 42mm</p>
<p>Spoke hole about 2.4mm</p>
<p>W<span style="font-size: 8pt;">L <span style="font-size: 10pt;">large flange side = 24.5mm</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">W<span style="font-size: 8pt;">R…</span></span></span></p>
<p>So I have a Sturmey Archer Dynohub manufactured in 1970 in perfect working order. Here are my dimensions.</p>
<p>36 hole</p>
<p>92mm OLD</p>
<p>Large Flange hole circle diameter 102mm</p>
<p>Small Flange hole circle diameter 42mm</p>
<p>Spoke hole about 2.4mm</p>
<p>W<span style="font-size: 8pt;">L <span style="font-size: 10pt;">large flange side = 24.5mm</span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">W<span style="font-size: 8pt;">R <span style="font-size: 10pt;">small flange side = 34mm</span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Additionally I have an original double walled steel Sturmey Archer rim, markings say "6020X2":</span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">ERD 396mm</span></span></span></span></p>
<p><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;"><span style="font-size: 8pt;"><span style="font-size: 10pt;">Spoke Offset = 2mm</span></span></span></span></p>
<p><font size="2">Because of the large flange on the Dynohub I used 2 cross spokes on the dynamo side and 3 cross spokes on the right side. So the spokes are 163.2mm and 189.9 respectively. I went through the dimensions to make sure but this is a perfect match for the original factory spokes from Raleigh Nottingham.</font></p>
<p></p> You don't want to over-torque…tag:thechainlink.org,2020-07-19:2211490:Comment:11390382020-07-19T05:53:12.594ZMatt M. 18.5KMhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/MattM
<p>You don't want to over-torque cranks....especially the early aluminum ones. I get really nervous around square taper cranks if I don't have a torque wrench handy. Some think it doesn't matter. Whatever.....I'm a worry wart.</p>
<p>You don't want to over-torque cranks....especially the early aluminum ones. I get really nervous around square taper cranks if I don't have a torque wrench handy. Some think it doesn't matter. Whatever.....I'm a worry wart.</p> 7/19/2020 - Yes. I miscalcul…tag:thechainlink.org,2020-07-19:2211490:Comment:11391292020-07-19T05:50:57.779ZMatt M. 18.5KMhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/MattM
<p><strong>7/19/2020 - Yes. I miscalculated the ERD for the Sun Rims CR18. But they are working well enough. I haven't taken the wheel for more than a 10 mile ride so my mistake only cost me $11 in spokes.</strong></p>
<p>So my folding bike had alloy spoke nipples which were cracking in half. The original deep V rim's spoke holes were also widening up. I don't think the double butted spokes and the radial lacing on the left side were helping at all. I located a Sun Rims CR 18 in 20 inch…</p>
<p><strong>7/19/2020 - Yes. I miscalculated the ERD for the Sun Rims CR18. But they are working well enough. I haven't taken the wheel for more than a 10 mile ride so my mistake only cost me $11 in spokes.</strong></p>
<p>So my folding bike had alloy spoke nipples which were cracking in half. The original deep V rim's spoke holes were also widening up. I don't think the double butted spokes and the radial lacing on the left side were helping at all. I located a Sun Rims CR 18 in 20 inch (April 2020 <strong>the ERD is 394.55mm</strong>) and here are some useful dimensions if you also have an old SRAM Dual Drive hub: </p>
<p>Spoke holes, center to center, (flange diameter on both sides) is 67.5mm</p>
<p>Hub flanges are 51.4mm apart center to center</p>
<p>My hub is 135 OLD on my bike</p>
<p>Left side outside lug to center of hub flange is 34.2mm</p>
<p>Right side outside lug to center of hub flange is 50.1mm</p>
<p>The hub flanges are 3.4mm thick</p>
<p>The spoke holes are 2.4mm diameter</p>
<p>My hub has 28 holes</p>
<p><strong>The OSB (offset spoke bed) is 1mm. W is the with of the rim at the edge. L is the center of the spoke hole nearest to an edge (rim surface or side face). W/2-L = OSB. </strong>On bike rims I haven't noticed much of a difference when entering the OSB but it's good to enter the OSB in SpokeCalc.</p>
<p>For an 135 OLD hub the WL is 33.3mm and the WR is 50.1mm (if you use SpokeCalc as listed above). <span> </span><strong>DT Swiss calls WL and WR the Flange Distance.</strong></p> Interesting chart. So when I…tag:thechainlink.org,2020-07-18:2211490:Comment:11390262020-07-18T13:32:45.601ZElwood Gruschowhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/ElwoodGruschow
<p>Interesting chart. So when I used to torque my Campy cranks to my Shimano cartridge I was over torque at 40 foot-pounds?</p>
<p>see you on the road</p>
<p>Elwood</p>
<p>Interesting chart. So when I used to torque my Campy cranks to my Shimano cartridge I was over torque at 40 foot-pounds?</p>
<p>see you on the road</p>
<p>Elwood</p> ubi-torque-chart.pdf
This is…tag:thechainlink.org,2020-07-17:2211490:Comment:11390062020-07-17T00:47:02.203ZMatt M. 18.5KMhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/MattM
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/6940978085?profile=original" rel="noopener" target="_blank">ubi-torque-chart.pdf</a></p>
<p>This is VERY handy - <a href="http://www.williambenedict.com/bikes/documents/ubi-torque-chart.pdf" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">torque specifications from the United Bicycle Institute</a>! I dabble with freehub bodies sometimes so I'm really glad to have this on hand! Shimano freehub binders are 305 - 434 in-lb ; or 34.5 - 49.0…</p>
<p><a href="https://storage.ning.com/topology/rest/1.0/file/get/6940978085?profile=original" target="_blank" rel="noopener">ubi-torque-chart.pdf</a></p>
<p>This is VERY handy - <a rel="nofollow noopener" href="http://www.williambenedict.com/bikes/documents/ubi-torque-chart.pdf" target="_blank">torque specifications from the United Bicycle Institute</a>! I dabble with freehub bodies sometimes so I'm really glad to have this on hand! Shimano freehub binders are 305 - 434 in-lb ; or 34.5 - 49.0 Nm ; or 25.4 ft-lb - 36.2 ft-lb</p> I don't really care for over-…tag:thechainlink.org,2018-02-21:2211490:Comment:10892552018-02-21T00:49:47.762ZMatt M. 18.5KMhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/MattM
<p>I don't really care for over-reliance on spoke calculators. I become anxious and very upset when mechanics look for the dimensions of a hub or a rim in a chart or from a website rather than making the dimensions themselves. I laud your decision to make your own dimensions.</p>
<p>I also become unnerved when spoke calculators don't fully report the decimal point, instead rounding up rather than saying what the calculation truly is. It's a little silly, maybe, but to me it makes a…</p>
<p>I don't really care for over-reliance on spoke calculators. I become anxious and very upset when mechanics look for the dimensions of a hub or a rim in a chart or from a website rather than making the dimensions themselves. I laud your decision to make your own dimensions.</p>
<p>I also become unnerved when spoke calculators don't fully report the decimal point, instead rounding up rather than saying what the calculation truly is. It's a little silly, maybe, but to me it makes a difference. </p>
<p>I don't think wheel building is some arcane practice. But we all need a resource which tells us how to get it done. Bear in mind that Damon Rinard is thorough in his instructions on different cross combinations and mix matching hubs to rims with less or more spoke holes.</p>
<p>In short, I like to know that I can do the math without a computer. I like to know all I need is the tools to measure with and a handheld scientific calculator for the trigonometric calculations. I don't like the idea that someone's software is deciding, perhaps incorrectly, what I will need to build a wheel.</p>
<p>There are people who don't have computers when they would like to build a wheel. I believe this discussion, if we were to print it out and hand it to them (and provided they know their high school math), would empower them to build their own wheels in any configuration they wish. This discussion puts all the necessary information for basic spoke calculations on one page.</p> Why not just use the calculat…tag:thechainlink.org,2018-02-16:2211490:Comment:10885232018-02-16T01:18:21.649ZVelo Celthttps://thechainlink.org/profile/MatthewCampbell
<p>Why not just use the calculator on Prowheelbuilder, or something like FreeSpoke. I've used them both, entering my own hub dimensions (with caliper in millimeters), or using stored data for specific hubs and rims. In every case I've been able to build wheels without issue. Everyone thinks wheel building is some arcane velo-nibelungen thing and it isn't - it's actually pretty easy. </p>
<p>Why not just use the calculator on Prowheelbuilder, or something like FreeSpoke. I've used them both, entering my own hub dimensions (with caliper in millimeters), or using stored data for specific hubs and rims. In every case I've been able to build wheels without issue. Everyone thinks wheel building is some arcane velo-nibelungen thing and it isn't - it's actually pretty easy. </p> I did many of my dimensions w…tag:thechainlink.org,2018-01-29:2211490:Comment:10874172018-01-29T23:14:36.006ZMatt M. 18.5KMhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/MattM
<p>I did many of my dimensions with a General Vernier Caliper I purchased from Home Depot. I know Imperial to Metric conversions are an unnecessary additional step. However I get really annoyed when people tell me wheel calculations can’t be done in Imperial units.</p>
<p>I did many of my dimensions with a General Vernier Caliper I purchased from Home Depot. I know Imperial to Metric conversions are an unnecessary additional step. However I get really annoyed when people tell me wheel calculations can’t be done in Imperial units.</p>