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"Watch for bikes" warnings in cabs?

I think it's a good idea (as I've been doored by a cab).

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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on July 18, 2012 at 11:55am

Ahh, that makes sense. Thanks!

James BlackHeron said:

Exactly!

Anne Alt said:

If there is enough room for the bike to pass on the passenger side, then the cab is NOT pulled over to the curb as legally required.


Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on July 18, 2012 at 12:33pm

Hopefully with a sliding door the exiting human would have a little "skin in the game" with their own well-being at stake as they hop out into traffic.

I've noticed that many folks just whip open the door and THEN look, before putting their own soft parts at risk.

Sure, there will still be a lot of zombified folks who just shamble out into traffic from the cocoon of the cab regardless -but I feel that looking before going into a "danger area" is hardwired into the deep instinctual recesses of the  monkey-brain.  

Notice how many folks will pause as they exit a building (usually & annoyingly right in front of you) before fully going out though a door.   They don't look BEFORE throwing the door open but tend to pay attention before stepping out into the open themselves.  It's a survival instinct before entering a "danger zone."  There might be lions out on the grassland when stepping out of the relative safety of the trees...

I feel that sliding doors on cabs would be better in the long run.  And i'd rather hit a +/-200lb bag of meat than a sharp, thin, solid metal and glass object connected to a 3000lb car by a hefty pair of hinges.  

Serge Lubomudrov said:

Right. Passengers are softer than doors. But not much. I'm speaking from experience, having collided on the LFT with a runner who turned right in front of me (perhaps, that runner was just a tough guy, being a Texan). Anyhow, the outcome of both dooring and meeting with a runner was the same in my case: fall, various scratches and bruises, bent front wheel.

So yes, the dooring hazard will be reduced, but not passengers-exiting-a-cab-related accidents.

Cameron Puetz said:

Ideally, I'd like to see more cabs the Transit Connect that use a sliding door and eliminate the swinging door hazard entirely.

Permalink Reply by Mike Keating on July 18, 2012 at 1:27pm

Yes, thanks.

If the cyclist tries to go around a curbed cab, the cab company takes the position that the bicyclist is at fault.

However, even the attorney for Yellow Cab agreed that if the cab lets the passenger out with the cab in the roadway and the passenger door opens from the cab into the path of the bicyclist then the cab and its passenger were at fault.


Thanks for the clarification.



Adam Herstein said:

I don't understand... Do you have this backwards? I'd think that if a cyclist tries to go around on the passenger side, then the cab company would blame the cyclist, since the cabbie is following the rules in that case.

Mike Keating said:

Yellow Cab takes the stance that if the bike tries to go around the cab on the cab's passenger side, the cab is at fault.

Permalink Reply by Mike Keating on July 18, 2012 at 2:13pm

Serge, that's usually determined on a case by case basis. Typically, I would proceed against both the driver and the passenger. But sometimes the passengers just walk away from the scene and can't be traced. In that instance we proceed against the cab company individually. The argument is the cab driver has a duty to make sure that the passengers do not exit into the path of traffic. This is for the safety of the passenger and traffic, including bicyclists.

Cabs are what are called "common carriers." Buses, trains, cabs, etc. that carry people in exchange for money have a higher duty to their passengers than "regular" people who are just giving someone a ride. The legal theory is that since, for example, cabs are "professionals" that they should only act with the "highest level of care."


Serge Lubomudrov said:

Does it mean, Mike, that the cab company (or is it a cab driver?) AND a passenger share, say, insurance payments and damages (not sure about the legalese here)?

I don't ride cabs as often as Michael A here, but, if memory serves me, a cabbie locks all the doors during the ride and unlocks them to let the passengers out. Wouldn't it be the driver's responsibility to check the mirrors before doing that?

Mike Keating said:

[...] if the cab lets the passenger out with the cab in the roadway and the passenger door opens from the cab into the path of the bicyclist then the cab and its passenger were at fault.
Permalink Reply by Rich S on March 20, 2013 at 11:33am

Just got doored for the first time yesterday by a lady exiting a taxi on Clark just south of Fullerton. Traffic was backed up and the door flung open right as I was passing. The driver was stopped in traffic and didn't pull over. Thankfully my pannier took the worst of it and I think I can fix the broken hook. It could've been much worse so I'm thankful I didn't get hurt. I gave them both an earful and took a pic of the taxi driver and cab number. 

I didn't see one of those stickers in the window but then I didn't go looking for it either! 

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on March 20, 2013 at 11:45am

Glad you're okay! Did they exit curb-side or street-side?

Rich S said:

Just got doored for the first time yesterday by a lady exiting a taxi on Clark just south of Fullerton. Traffic was backed up and the door flung open right as I was passing. The driver was stopped in traffic and didn't pull over. Thankfully my pannier took the worst of it and I think I can fix the broken hook. It could've been much worse so I'm thankful I didn't get hurt. I gave them both an earful and took a pic of the taxi driver and cab number. 

I didn't see one of those stickers in the window but then I didn't go looking for it either! 

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 20, 2013 at 11:56am

Glad you survived with little harm, Rich.  Can any of the legal experts here say whether, in this case, it was the passenger who's broken the law rather than the driver?  I'm guessing a cabbie has no real control of a passenger who decides to leap out while a cab's stuck in traffic, unless they're required to lock passengers in until they've pulled over.  But then, that could be considered forcible restraint of the passenger.

Permalink Reply by Rich S on March 20, 2013 at 11:56am

Thanks!  It was curbside but the driver was stopped in traffic normally so there was no indication he was dropping a passenger off.  If he had pulled over a bit and signaled right then I would've known he was either dropping off or picking up. 

Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

Glad you're okay! Did they exit curb-side or street-side?


Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on March 20, 2013 at 12:02pm

AFAIK, the law states that opening a door into traffic without looking is illegal, so the passenger would seem to be at fault. The cabbie also should have pulled to the curb, though.

I am not a lawyer.

Thunder Snow said:

Glad you survived with little harm, Rich.  Can any of the legal experts here say whether, in this case, it was the passenger who's broken the law rather than the driver?  I'm guessing a cabbie has no real control of a passenger who decides to leap out while a cab's stuck in traffic, unless they're required to lock passengers in until they've pulled over.  But then, that could be considered forcible restraint of the passenger.

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on March 20, 2013 at 12:43pm

Thanks, Serge, I just went back and read the thread up to here, which I hadn't done.  I think Mike's saying that they go after the cab company, as the nearest deep pocket, especially if the passenger is anonymous (paid cash). 

I guess I'm wondering how a cabbie can prevent passengers from doing stupid things.  If I was riding in a cab and the cabbie told me I couldn't get out at my destination but instead had to ride to the next corner, their tip might be reduced to zip.  Maybe I'm an outlier, but when I feel the need to spend money for a cab, it's because I'm running late.  I'll usually hand the driver a $10 or $20 bill a block or two ahead of reaching my destination, tell him or her to keep the change and hop out the moment I get where I'm heading.  I bet a lot of other folks do the same. I don't see how a cabbie could predict exactly where I'm going to hop out if we're stopped at a stop sign or traffic behind a line of cars, in order to properly pull over.

Of course, I look over my shoulder first, but to someone who doesn't bike, I would think watching for cyclists would be akin to first ducking for low-flying dirigibles--just not on the radar at all.  (Which we're trying to fix with the Look Chicago! group here....) 

Permalink Reply by spencewine on March 20, 2013 at 12:56pm

I had this same thing happen back in December. My pannier broke, but I wasn't injured. The lady who doored me was apologetic and said her brother was a bicycle activist. She gave me her card and  she ended up reimbursing me for the damage to my pannier. You did the right thing taking a photo of the Cab (I didn't) as the ultimate liability rests with them and not the passenger... I contacted Keatings office after the incident to see what recourse I had and that was what they told me as well. It might be difficult collecting a small amount of money for damages and probably not worth getting a lawyer involved, but you might want to try sending the cab company a bill for damages and, if you haven't already, reporting it to the city (if for informational purposes only).
 
Rich S said:

Just got doored for the first time yesterday by a lady exiting a taxi on Clark just south of Fullerton. Traffic was backed up and the door flung open right as I was passing. The driver was stopped in traffic and didn't pull over. Thankfully my pannier took the worst of it and I think I can fix the broken hook. It could've been much worse so I'm thankful I didn't get hurt. I gave them both an earful and took a pic of the taxi driver and cab number. 

I didn't see one of those stickers in the window but then I didn't go looking for it either! 

Permalink Reply by Rich S on March 20, 2013 at 1:18pm

I do intend to file a report so at least there is a record of a dooring there. Even if the driver doesn't get a ticket or I don't get reimbursed for the pannier. Enough people have fought for doorings to be counted as legit crashes that I think it's the right thing to at least report it.  

The cabby tried driving away when I asked for his info but I caught up to him at Fullerton. That's when I took pics. I'm going to write a letter to the company asking that their drivers be more careful and not try to leave the scene of an accident.  

spencewine said:

I had this same thing happen back in December. My pannier broke, but I wasn't injured. The lady who doored me was apologetic and said her brother was a bicycle activist. She gave me her card and  she ended up reimbursing me for the damage to my pannier. You did the right thing taking a photo of the Cab (I didn't) as the ultimate liability rests with them and not the passenger... I contacted Keatings office after the incident to see what recourse I had and that was what they told me as well. It might be difficult collecting a small amount of money for damages and probably not worth getting a lawyer involved, but you might want to try sending the cab company a bill for damages and, if you haven't already, reporting it to the city (if for informational purposes only).
 

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