Victimized by Drivers and their Insurers - The Chainlink2024-03-29T14:32:54Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A571081&xg_source=msg_com_forum&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI don't think it matters in t…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5710392012-07-16T18:03:25.137ZDoug Hayneshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DougHaynes
<p>I don't think it matters in the other thread and it is not my job to stop people from talking about what they want to talk about. Personally I think what was said in that thread will have zero effect on any disciplinary action against the officer in question; in fact I doubt there will even be an investigation. Secondly it was not my story or my thread to complain about that in.</p>
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<p>I think the two situations are different and you are tying to compare apples to oranges. That…</p>
<p>I don't think it matters in the other thread and it is not my job to stop people from talking about what they want to talk about. Personally I think what was said in that thread will have zero effect on any disciplinary action against the officer in question; in fact I doubt there will even be an investigation. Secondly it was not my story or my thread to complain about that in.</p>
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<p>I think the two situations are different and you are tying to compare apples to oranges. That was a call out to find witnesses and information on an incident involving a officer of the law in order to better round out a complaint. This is a thread with a person giving a detailed account of an accident that may, or may not, end up in court or arbitration where any differing accounts by the participants in the accident or their representatives can cause damage.</p>
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<p>People jumped on the details in this thread because it is something preached by every attorney out there when it comes to getting in a accident. It is sound advice and I stand by it and question the competence of any person claiming to be an attorney who does not agree with it.</p>
<p><br/> Either way, no matter how you see the issue the fact of the matter is this: <strong>THE APPROPRIATE THREAD TO DISCUSS THIS IN WOULD BE THE ONE YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH!</strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p>I don't assume people who disagree with me or 'push back' are idiots; I assume people who disagree and push back about an issue in a unrelated thread or inappropriate venue to be an idiot.</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>O said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A571182#2211490Comment571032"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The better question would be why you allowed the airing of the details of an as yet undetermined situation without any pushback. And instead wait until this thread to start showing your sensitivities to proper incident reports.</p>
<p>If the usual denizens of this forum were more vigilant at the start no one would have to point out the Double Standard being applied in this thread. I imagine though that had I raised these questions in the original forum there would have still be a hue and cry that I was blowing things out of proportion.</p>
<p>I don't think so. It's just that things here have been bordering on the uncivil for so very long that anytime you get pushback you assume that the person doing the pushing must be an idiot. I have been called far worse by better people than you might be.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A570851&x=1#2211490Comment571022"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>So, um, if you feel so strongly about this why are you posting about it here and <strong>not in the original thread where this conversation would have been in context?</strong> You do have a valid point, one I think you are blowing way out of proportion, but still an opinion that should be voiced and discussed. </p>
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<p>I would also like to point out that the rules of this forum and the restrictions that have been placed on me do not allow me to call you an idiot.</p>
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</blockquote> I think insurance companies m…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5711822012-07-16T17:49:09.561ZDoug Hayneshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DougHaynes
<p>I think insurance companies make calls like that regardless of fault or actually liability just to see if they can get people to pay with petty threats and mock authority. <br></br> <br></br> <cite>Derek said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A570265&page=2#2211490Comment570851"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>My car was parked street side when an elderly lady, that was just released…</p>
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<p>I think insurance companies make calls like that regardless of fault or actually liability just to see if they can get people to pay with petty threats and mock authority. <br/> <br/> <cite>Derek said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A570265&page=2#2211490Comment570851"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>My car was parked street side when an elderly lady, that was just released from a local hospital 3 blocks away, ran into it. She tried to flee the scene but the cars were stuck together due to the crash's impact and her car die while attempting to drag my Taurus down a wintry Wisconsin road. (she made it almost 100 feet)</p>
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<p>Two days later her insurance company called trying to collect damages from me. They stopped calling after a few days. </p>
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</blockquote> +1, if they can get the other…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5709612012-07-16T16:30:50.799ZLizhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Liz657
<p>+1, if they can get the other party to admit to any guilt than they can spend less money paying them out. </p>
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<p>Another big key is to clearly write down all of the details as soon as possible, and use the notes whenever you speak to anyone. Inconsistent stories will often hurt even a valid argument. </p>
<p><br></br> <cite>James BlackHeron said:…</cite></p>
<p>+1, if they can get the other party to admit to any guilt than they can spend less money paying them out. </p>
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<p>Another big key is to clearly write down all of the details as soon as possible, and use the notes whenever you speak to anyone. Inconsistent stories will often hurt even a valid argument. </p>
<p><br/> <cite>James BlackHeron said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A570265&page=3#2211490Comment571088"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I would imagine that it is mostly the latter -although being fueled by the former it might just embolden them.</p>
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<p>Mostly I think the insurance companies try this because it sometimes works, and rarely will hurt. Insurance companies are not charities that exist to give away money. You basically have to pry it from their hands. If someone lets the insurer bully them into giving up then the company wins.</p>
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<p>These are not the droids you are looking for...<br/> <br/> <cite>Chris B said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A571081&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment571081"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Wow Derek, that is just the craziest story ever. You know, in cases like that, I wonder if the insurance company tried because of lies the other driver told them, or because they will just try whatever they can to get out of paying.</p>
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</blockquote> I would imagine that it is mo…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5710882012-07-16T16:26:57.919ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
<p>I would imagine that it is mostly the latter -although being fueled by the former it might just embolden them.</p>
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<p>Mostly I think the insurance companies try this because it sometimes works, and rarely will hurt. Insurance companies are not charities that exist to give away money. You basically have to pry it from their hands. If someone lets the insurer bully them into giving up then the company wins.</p>
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<p>These are not the droids you are looking for...…<br></br> <br></br></p>
<p>I would imagine that it is mostly the latter -although being fueled by the former it might just embolden them.</p>
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<p>Mostly I think the insurance companies try this because it sometimes works, and rarely will hurt. Insurance companies are not charities that exist to give away money. You basically have to pry it from their hands. If someone lets the insurer bully them into giving up then the company wins.</p>
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<p>These are not the droids you are looking for...<br/> <br/> <cite>Chris B said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A571081&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment571081"><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Wow Derek, that is just the craziest story ever. You know, in cases like that, I wonder if the insurance company tried because of lies the other driver told them, or because they will just try whatever they can to get out of paying.</p>
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</blockquote> The better question would be…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5710322012-07-16T16:23:50.710ZOhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/EricVann
<p>The better question would be why you allowed the airing of the details of an as yet undetermined situation without any pushback. And instead wait until this thread to start showing your sensitivities to proper incident reports.</p>
<p>If the usual denizens of this forum were more vigilant at the start no one would have to point out the Double Standard being applied in this thread. I imagine though that had I raised these questions in the original forum there would have still be a hue and cry…</p>
<p>The better question would be why you allowed the airing of the details of an as yet undetermined situation without any pushback. And instead wait until this thread to start showing your sensitivities to proper incident reports.</p>
<p>If the usual denizens of this forum were more vigilant at the start no one would have to point out the Double Standard being applied in this thread. I imagine though that had I raised these questions in the original forum there would have still be a hue and cry that I was blowing things out of proportion.</p>
<p>I don't think so. It's just that things here have been bordering on the uncivil for so very long that anytime you get pushback you assume that the person doing the pushing must be an idiot. I have been called far worse by better people than you might be.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A570851&x=1#2211490Comment571022"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>So, um, if you feel so strongly about this why are you posting about it here and <strong>not in the original thread where this conversation would have been in context?</strong> You do have a valid point, one I think you are blowing way out of proportion, but still an opinion that should be voiced and discussed. </p>
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<p>I would also like to point out that the rules of this forum and the restrictions that have been placed on me do not allow me to call you an idiot.</p>
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</blockquote> Wow Derek, that is just the c…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5710812012-07-16T16:19:51.341ZChris Bhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/ChrisB
<p>Wow Derek, that is just the craziest story ever. You know, in cases like that, I wonder if the insurance company tried because of lies the other driver told them, or because they will just try whatever they can to get out of paying.</p>
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<p>Incidentally I am really lucky i was raised by a lawyer (and am now married to one)*. It seems like you need your own lawyer in so many interactions now, because (according to them) 90% of trials have nothing to do with the law, just having the…</p>
<p>Wow Derek, that is just the craziest story ever. You know, in cases like that, I wonder if the insurance company tried because of lies the other driver told them, or because they will just try whatever they can to get out of paying.</p>
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<p>Incidentally I am really lucky i was raised by a lawyer (and am now married to one)*. It seems like you need your own lawyer in so many interactions now, because (according to them) 90% of trials have nothing to do with the law, just having the better and more tenacious bully on your side. But at least I was brought up to keep my mouth shut at collisions, don't talk to the other side, or to anyone else, go to the hospital, etc. I hear all these funny stories about clients doing things exactly the opposite of what their lawyers ask them to do. Well it's funny for me :)</p>
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<p>*two different attorneys, in case that needed to be explained!</p> My car was parked street side…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5708512012-07-16T14:40:08.235ZDerekhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Derek901
<p>My car was parked street side when an elderly lady, that was just released from a local hospital 3 blocks away, ran into it. She tried to flee the scene but the cars were stuck together due to the crash's impact and her car die while attempting to drag my Taurus down a wintry Wisconsin road. (she made it almost 100 feet)</p>
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<p>Two days later her insurance company called trying to collect damages from me. They stopped calling after a few days. </p>
<p>My car was parked street side when an elderly lady, that was just released from a local hospital 3 blocks away, ran into it. She tried to flee the scene but the cars were stuck together due to the crash's impact and her car die while attempting to drag my Taurus down a wintry Wisconsin road. (she made it almost 100 feet)</p>
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<p>Two days later her insurance company called trying to collect damages from me. They stopped calling after a few days. </p> So, um, if you feel so strong…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5710222012-07-16T13:27:32.452ZDoug Hayneshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DougHaynes
<p>So, um, if you feel so strongly about this why are you posting about it here and <strong>not in the original thread where this conversation would have been in context?</strong> You do have a valid point, one I think you are blowing way out of proportion, but still an opinion that should be voiced and discussed. </p>
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<p>I would also like to point out that the rules of this forum and the restrictions that have been placed on me do not allow me to call you an idiot.</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>O…</cite></p>
<p>So, um, if you feel so strongly about this why are you posting about it here and <strong>not in the original thread where this conversation would have been in context?</strong> You do have a valid point, one I think you are blowing way out of proportion, but still an opinion that should be voiced and discussed. </p>
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<p>I would also like to point out that the rules of this forum and the restrictions that have been placed on me do not allow me to call you an idiot.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>O said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A571019&x=1#2211490Comment570761"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The reason that the thread seemed more than simply trying to find a witness was due to the characterizations given:</p>
<blockquote><p>"Based upon the description, <strong>behavior is unacceptable</strong>. However, anyone ever considered that he was not off-duty but undercover and was actually looking for the guy he "stopped"? Just saying'." - Lisa Curcio</p>
<p>"Even if on duty <strong>the reckless behavior of the officer</strong> was endangering others. He was also in a car that was obviously not a city vehicle and I doubt an undercover officer is going to be wearing a badge around his neck." - NotoriousDUG</p>
<p>"<strong>He was not out looking for anyone</strong>. <strong>He apparently was annoyed</strong> at the left-turning vehicle in front of him, and used the bike lane to get around. Never mind that there was a large group of cyclists in the bike lane. That's when I saw him, plow into the cyclists for no apparent reason. One of the cyclists took exception to this and yelled something at the guy, and <strong>that's when he singled him out, followed, and eventually forced him off the bike</strong>." - Justyna</p>
<p>"<strong>I plan to call their Internal Affairs office</strong>. I didn't do it today, because I was hoping that another witness got the license plates number. Regrettably, no one did. However, I have a very good description of the driver, and I did follow his antics the whole way, as I was driving immediately behind him. I did not want to write a long essay on Facebook, but <strong>it was very scary and reckless behavior</strong>, regardless of whether the cyclist had actually done anything wrong -- he did not. Even when he was pushed against the car by the cop, he maintained his composure, and was just trying to diffuse the potentially explosive situation. I'm really glad that no one was hurt. <strong>This cop endangered easily a half a dozen cyclists by forcing them out of the bike lane and into oncoming traffic</strong>. I narrowly missed hitting one myself with my vehicle, because he appeared out of nowhere trying to get out of the way. I really couldn't stop and take notes, because I had two kids with me in the car." - Justyna</p>
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<p>These are just a smattering of the postings made to the thread. If this police officer is reprimanded by his superiors it might seem that these thread entries are prejudicial. And if the union representative needed any further ammunition having entires like "I hate cops. I just do" are like red meat to a carnivore.</p>
<p>As a business owner that has the potential to serve the Chicago Police Department's Cycling Patrol it would seem judicious to not antagonize anyone there. That more than anything really caused me to wonder about the wisdom of this thread in the first instance.</p>
<p>It seems to me that at the very least showing some sort of verbal restraint in areas like this is necessary. I would hate to see a legitimate complaint tossed out merely because of the tenor of the conversation here on a thread started by the very person who was lodging the complaint. And yes it might very well be of interest to anyone seeking to defend that officer.</p>
<p>Why? Because the comments appear to describe a general environment in which negative motives have been attributed to the officer by people who appear to in some cases have little or no regard for the person "on the job". In fact if you were looking for people to serve as witnesses, anyone responding from this thread would appear to be from a witness pool which was not unbiased.</p>
<p><cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A570839&x=1#2211490Comment570839"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The difference there was that the other thread was about finding witnesses where this one is just the telling of the story of the accident and all sorts of details.</p>
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<p>I doubt anyone representing that officer would care about anything said here because there is most likely never going to be any charges for them to defend against; do you really think anything is going to happen there?<cite><br/></cite></p>
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</blockquote> +2 h' said:
Please don't muc…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5710192012-07-16T12:35:29.363ZSue Clarkhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/SueClark
<p>+2<br></br> <br></br> <cite>h' said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?id=2211490%3ATopic%3A570265&page=2#2211490Comment570829"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Please don't muck up this thread with your bitter personal vendettas relating to mysterious other discussions that only the individual targeted by your harassment would be aware of. For someone who's been kicking around the 'net for so many years and even…</p>
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<p>+2<br/> <br/> <cite>h' said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?id=2211490%3ATopic%3A570265&page=2#2211490Comment570829"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Please don't muck up this thread with your bitter personal vendettas relating to mysterious other discussions that only the individual targeted by your harassment would be aware of. For someone who's been kicking around the 'net for so many years and even had their own website, what, 15 years ago(?), you seem to have a <em>really</em> hard time understanding how a discussion board functions.<br/> <br/> <cite>O said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A570998&x=1#2211490Comment570998"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Curious whether this sort of rationale applies to threads where people are complaining about a police officer who appears to be using unnecessary force when dealing with cyclists who are reportedly in the bike lane but complaining about the intrusion of the vehicle of the off-duty officer?</p>
<p>My immediate reaction when I read that thread was "why not report the incident to the police rather than air it on this forum?" And especially since the kinds of remarks made about police in general were rather ugly. In fact on their Facebook site it was especially regrettable. I note after just looking that the ugliest remark about "hating cops" in that thread seems to have been expunged.</p>
<p>But again the question needs to be addressed, why was that thread on this forum allowed to continue without there being any similar kinds of admonishments from you? I ask in the interest of fairness to all parties including the police officer who was probably discussed here before ever hearing anything from his superiors.</p>
<p>His union representative would probably be quite eager to get copies of that thread, don't you think?</p>
<p><br/> <cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A570265&page=1#2211490Comment570730"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p><strong>Every,</strong> <em><strong>SINGLE</strong></em>, attorney I know who specializes in active transportation law suits, as well as any attorney I have <strong>ever</strong> known recommends never, ever, talking about the accident or case on any public forum. As an attorney you should know just how much damage a poorly worded, rash or misconstrued statement can do to a court case.</p>
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</blockquote> The reason that the thread se…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-07-16:2211490:Comment:5707612012-07-16T11:29:42.762ZOhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/EricVann
<p>The reason that the thread seemed more than simply trying to find a witness was due to the characterizations given:</p>
<blockquote><p>"Based upon the description, <strong>behavior is unacceptable</strong>. However, anyone ever considered that he was not off-duty but undercover and was actually looking for the guy he "stopped"? Just saying'." - Lisa Curcio</p>
<p>"Even if on duty <strong>the reckless behavior of the officer</strong> was endangering others. He was also in a car that was…</p>
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<p>The reason that the thread seemed more than simply trying to find a witness was due to the characterizations given:</p>
<blockquote><p>"Based upon the description, <strong>behavior is unacceptable</strong>. However, anyone ever considered that he was not off-duty but undercover and was actually looking for the guy he "stopped"? Just saying'." - Lisa Curcio</p>
<p>"Even if on duty <strong>the reckless behavior of the officer</strong> was endangering others. He was also in a car that was obviously not a city vehicle and I doubt an undercover officer is going to be wearing a badge around his neck." - NotoriousDUG</p>
<p>"<strong>He was not out looking for anyone</strong>. <strong>He apparently was annoyed</strong> at the left-turning vehicle in front of him, and used the bike lane to get around. Never mind that there was a large group of cyclists in the bike lane. That's when I saw him, plow into the cyclists for no apparent reason. One of the cyclists took exception to this and yelled something at the guy, and <strong>that's when he singled him out, followed, and eventually forced him off the bike</strong>." - Justyna</p>
<p>"<strong>I plan to call their Internal Affairs office</strong>. I didn't do it today, because I was hoping that another witness got the license plates number. Regrettably, no one did. However, I have a very good description of the driver, and I did follow his antics the whole way, as I was driving immediately behind him. I did not want to write a long essay on Facebook, but <strong>it was very scary and reckless behavior</strong>, regardless of whether the cyclist had actually done anything wrong -- he did not. Even when he was pushed against the car by the cop, he maintained his composure, and was just trying to diffuse the potentially explosive situation. I'm really glad that no one was hurt. <strong>This cop endangered easily a half a dozen cyclists by forcing them out of the bike lane and into oncoming traffic</strong>. I narrowly missed hitting one myself with my vehicle, because he appeared out of nowhere trying to get out of the way. I really couldn't stop and take notes, because I had two kids with me in the car." - Justyna</p>
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<p>These are just a smattering of the postings made to the thread. If this police officer is reprimanded by his superiors it might seem that these thread entries are prejudicial. And if the union representative needed any further ammunition having entires like "I hate cops. I just do" are like red meat to a carnivore.</p>
<p>As a business owner that has the potential to serve the Chicago Police Department's Cycling Patrol it would seem judicious to not antagonize anyone there. That more than anything really caused me to wonder about the wisdom of this thread in the first instance.</p>
<p>It seems to me that at the very least showing some sort of verbal restraint in areas like this is necessary. I would hate to see a legitimate complaint tossed out merely because of the tenor of the conversation here on a thread started by the very person who was lodging the complaint. And yes it might very well be of interest to anyone seeking to defend that officer.</p>
<p>Why? Because the comments appear to describe a general environment in which negative motives have been attributed to the officer by people who appear to in some cases have little or no regard for the person "on the job". In fact if you were looking for people to serve as witnesses, anyone responding from this thread would appear to be from a witness pool which was not unbiased.</p>
<p><cite>notoriousDUG said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/victimized-by-drivers-and-their-insurers?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A570839&x=1#2211490Comment570839"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The difference there was that the other thread was about finding witnesses where this one is just the telling of the story of the accident and all sorts of details.</p>
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<p>I doubt anyone representing that officer would care about anything said here because there is most likely never going to be any charges for them to defend against; do you really think anything is going to happen there?<cite><br/></cite></p>
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