Shouldn't we be trying new roadway designs? - The Chainlink2024-03-29T10:29:46Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498904&feed=yes&xn_auth=noThe bike corral plan for Ande…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-06:2211490:Comment:4988432012-01-06T16:56:57.979ZMarkhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Mark314
<p>The bike corral plan for Andersonville I saw was to install it at the T-intersection at Clark and Farragut where there currently is no parking anyway. So no parking spaces or bus stops would be lost.</p>
<p>The bike corral plan for Andersonville I saw was to install it at the T-intersection at Clark and Farragut where there currently is no parking anyway. So no parking spaces or bus stops would be lost.</p> I'm not opposed to removing c…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-06:2211490:Comment:4989782012-01-06T06:08:53.923ZSolhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Sol
I'm not opposed to removing car parking to add bike parking, but Chicago will be limited or have to pay up to do that more than other cities for quite a while due to the parking meter deal.
I'm not opposed to removing car parking to add bike parking, but Chicago will be limited or have to pay up to do that more than other cities for quite a while due to the parking meter deal. There's so much unmet demand…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-06:2211490:Comment:4989042012-01-06T03:02:53.614ZAnne Althttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Anne91
<p>There's so much unmet demand for bike parking in Andersonville that I'm sure lots of folks would love to see a bike corral or two there. I think it would be great for the businesses there, because car parking is so limited.</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Steven Vance said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498812&x=1#2211490Comment498812"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>New…</p>
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<p>There's so much unmet demand for bike parking in Andersonville that I'm sure lots of folks would love to see a bike corral or two there. I think it would be great for the businesses there, because car parking is so limited.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Steven Vance said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498812&x=1#2211490Comment498812"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>New York City just installed a bumpout in the form of on-street bike parking. The Andersonville Chamber of Commerce has expressed interest (again, after expressing interest years ago and getting shot down by CDOT) in doing on-street bike parking. Parking spaces were removed, effectively "daylighting the intersection" (making people on the sidewalk visible to people driving in cars). </p>
<p>Here's a <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.streetfilms.org/making-streets-safer-with-on-street-bike-parking/" target="_blank">Streetfilms video describing that</a>. </p>
<p><iframe width="475" height="267" src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/34514767?js_api=1&js_swf_id=vimeo_player&title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&color=9086c0" frameborder="0"></iframe>
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</blockquote> New York City just installed…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-06:2211490:Comment:4988122012-01-06T02:56:56.343ZSteven Vancehttps://thechainlink.org/profile/stevevance
<p>New York City just installed a bumpout in the form of on-street bike parking. The Andersonville Chamber of Commerce has expressed interest (again, after expressing interest years ago and getting shot down by CDOT) in doing on-street bike parking. Parking spaces were removed, effectively "daylighting the intersection" (making people on the sidewalk visible to people driving in cars). </p>
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<p>Here's a…</p>
<p>New York City just installed a bumpout in the form of on-street bike parking. The Andersonville Chamber of Commerce has expressed interest (again, after expressing interest years ago and getting shot down by CDOT) in doing on-street bike parking. Parking spaces were removed, effectively "daylighting the intersection" (making people on the sidewalk visible to people driving in cars). </p>
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<p>Here's a <a href="http://www.streetfilms.org/making-streets-safer-with-on-street-bike-parking/" target="_blank">Streetfilms video describing that</a>. </p>
<p><iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/34514767?js_api=1&js_swf_id=vimeo_player&title=0&byline=0&portrait=0&color=9086c0" frameborder="0"></iframe>
<br/> <br/> <cite>Sol said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498661&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment498661"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">I commuted by bike on Clark in A'ville during the bumping test. It was a very bad idea as implemented there. I'm glad they tested it before doing a hard install. As someone said above, the buses stopped in the driving lane and everyone had to stop behind them and wait, including cyclists. It did slow traffic down, but there was no way a car could give me three feet of clearance at the intersections whereas now we can both be safely next to each other. I started riding the wrong way down glenwood in order to avoid Clark during the experiment. Also, I have bumpouts near my home on the 1500 block of elmdale, the snow plows destroy them, pot holes form near them and there is never money set aside for maintaining them. I am not a fan of bumpouts or traffic circles. Also, installing them often results in a reduction of street parking. While some may applaud that, if metered spaces are removed, under the parking meter deal, new meters will need to be installed where none currently exist or the city will have to pay for lost revenue.</div>
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</blockquote> I commuted by bike on Clark i…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-06:2211490:Comment:4986612012-01-06T02:49:57.142ZSolhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Sol
I commuted by bike on Clark in A'ville during the bumping test. It was a very bad idea as implemented there. I'm glad they tested it before doing a hard install. As someone said above, the buses stopped in the driving lane and everyone had to stop behind them and wait, including cyclists. It did slow traffic down, but there was no way a car could give me three feet of clearance at the intersections whereas now we can both be safely next to each other. I started riding the wrong way down…
I commuted by bike on Clark in A'ville during the bumping test. It was a very bad idea as implemented there. I'm glad they tested it before doing a hard install. As someone said above, the buses stopped in the driving lane and everyone had to stop behind them and wait, including cyclists. It did slow traffic down, but there was no way a car could give me three feet of clearance at the intersections whereas now we can both be safely next to each other. I started riding the wrong way down glenwood in order to avoid Clark during the experiment. Also, I have bumpouts near my home on the 1500 block of elmdale, the snow plows destroy them, pot holes form near them and there is never money set aside for maintaining them. I am not a fan of bumpouts or traffic circles. Also, installing them often results in a reduction of street parking. While some may applaud that, if metered spaces are removed, under the parking meter deal, new meters will need to be installed where none currently exist or the city will have to pay for lost revenue. It seems failed from the star…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-05:2211490:Comment:4985402012-01-05T20:32:03.409ZSteven Vancehttps://thechainlink.org/profile/stevevance
<p>It seems failed from the start. Why not build a real bumpout to test, or do what New York City did and paint the ground and use planters to keep drivers out. </p>
<p>Thanks for the info. </p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Mark said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498463&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment498463"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The bumpout "test" was along Clark…</p>
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<p>It seems failed from the start. Why not build a real bumpout to test, or do what New York City did and paint the ground and use planters to keep drivers out. </p>
<p>Thanks for the info. </p>
<p><br/> <cite>Mark said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498463&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment498463"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>The bumpout "test" was along Clark Street between Foster and Bryn Mawr in 2000 or so. The idea was to bumpout all of the curbs, leaving only legal parking spaces. This included eliminating bus stops, so the buses would stop in the driving lane. It also eliminated all of the end-of block illegal parking spaces that people use to pull over and wait while someone quickly runs into a store to pick something up.</p>
<p>So instead of going through with the actual construction of the bumpouts, flexible barriers were installed, similar to along Kinzie Street. The test period was supposed to be for 6 months. The barriers were very confusing and drivers hated them - including me. Many of the barriers got run over, and after about 1 month, the whole idea was scrapped.</p>
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</blockquote> The bumpout "test" was along…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-05:2211490:Comment:4984632012-01-05T20:20:16.660ZMarkhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Mark314
<p>The bumpout "test" was along Clark Street between Foster and Bryn Mawr in 2000 or so. The idea was to bumpout all of the curbs, leaving only legal parking spaces. This included eliminating bus stops, so the buses would stop in the driving lane. It also eliminated all of the end-of block illegal parking spaces that people use to pull over and wait while someone quickly runs into a store to pick something up.</p>
<p>So instead of going through with the actual construction of the bumpouts,…</p>
<p>The bumpout "test" was along Clark Street between Foster and Bryn Mawr in 2000 or so. The idea was to bumpout all of the curbs, leaving only legal parking spaces. This included eliminating bus stops, so the buses would stop in the driving lane. It also eliminated all of the end-of block illegal parking spaces that people use to pull over and wait while someone quickly runs into a store to pick something up.</p>
<p>So instead of going through with the actual construction of the bumpouts, flexible barriers were installed, similar to along Kinzie Street. The test period was supposed to be for 6 months. The barriers were very confusing and drivers hated them - including me. Many of the barriers got run over, and after about 1 month, the whole idea was scrapped.</p> Anne - where did they try the…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-05:2211490:Comment:4985332012-01-05T19:13:29.792ZLanterne Rougehttps://thechainlink.org/profile/JimSchultz
<p>Anne - where did they try the bumpouts in Andersonville? As a new(er) resident of the neighborhood, I'm curious.</p>
<p>Anne - where did they try the bumpouts in Andersonville? As a new(er) resident of the neighborhood, I'm curious.</p> I have a similar complaint ab…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-05:2211490:Comment:4986822012-01-05T18:39:35.592ZAnne Althttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Anne91
<p>I have a similar complaint about recent ADA curb ramp installations in my neighborhood. When they're added in places where the street isn't being repaved at the same time, the contractors are often doing a very poor job of how the new asphalt meets the old, effectively pre-installing potholes. </p>
<p><br></br>I've talked to Gabe Klein about this problem. If they can't do a better job of bonding new asphalt with old, whether it's at bumpouts or curb installations, perhaps the use of a flexible…</p>
<p>I have a similar complaint about recent ADA curb ramp installations in my neighborhood. When they're added in places where the street isn't being repaved at the same time, the contractors are often doing a very poor job of how the new asphalt meets the old, effectively pre-installing potholes. </p>
<p><br/>I've talked to Gabe Klein about this problem. If they can't do a better job of bonding new asphalt with old, whether it's at bumpouts or curb installations, perhaps the use of a flexible crack sealer <em>along the entire joint</em> could protect it against premature pothole formation.<br/><br/>Can anyone with knowledge about paving speak to this issue and whether they think this could be an effective solution, or if they have other ideas? Pre-installation of potholes at pieces of infrastructure that are <em>supposed to improve accessibility</em> is really lame.<br/> <br/> <cite>Meg Matthews said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?page=1&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498590&x=1#2211490Comment498590"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I hate bumpouts. There are a bunch on MLK going south. Guess where giant potholes tend to open up? (Although at this point, there are giant potholes all over the bike lane between 29th and 33rd, thanks to heavy bus traffic I think.) The soft bumpouts might be better...</p>
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</blockquote> +1 Steven Vance said:
So I'm…tag:thechainlink.org,2012-01-05:2211490:Comment:4985222012-01-05T18:32:40.979ZAnne Althttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Anne91
<p>+1<br></br> <br></br> <cite>Steven Vance said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?page=1&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498590&x=1#2211490Comment498353"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>So I'm going to write a new series called "Design Errors", or something, and point out all the ways our road designs lead to confusion. </p>
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<p>Here's a video (from the same Dutch pair that brought you the intersection…</p>
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<p>+1<br/> <br/> <cite>Steven Vance said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/shouldn-t-we-be-trying-new-roadway-designs?page=1&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A498590&x=1#2211490Comment498353"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>So I'm going to write a new series called "Design Errors", or something, and point out all the ways our road designs lead to confusion. </p>
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<p>Here's a video (from the same Dutch pair that brought you the intersection transformation animation video) that describes an intersection in the Netherlands (with the highest crash rate, 14 injuries a year when 14,000 people ride through it daily) and that "the intersection does not tell people how to use it". </p>
<p>What do you think of people learning how to use the street based on how it was designed? Think of products that are very popular (like the iPod). Why did something that cost 3x as much as its competitor ($400 when it came out) become the more sought after item? For one, it had a logical and intuitive music browser. You didn't need instructions, it told you how to use it. </p>
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