protected bike lane downtown
Views: 298
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Rich S on
-
I didn't think Illinois Ave needed a protected bike lane until a couple Jersey Shore looking a-holes in a white Chevy Tahoe passed me on the right while I was in the bike lane. This was on Tuesday just east of State St. Then they proceeded to give me a brake job on the downhill going under Michigan Ave.
Dearborn and Ontario is always a fun one. The bike lane is on the left when going north on Dearborn and the left turn lane is to the left of the bike lane when approaching Ontario. I almost always have to deal with cars turning left in front of me from the lane to the right even though they're supposed to go straight thru the intersection.
in it to win it said:Within the Loop, Dearborn & Clark are wide and would be good North/South candidates.
Maybe going under the tracks on Lake/VanBuren would be good East/West candidates; move parking off those streets altogether and use the sides outside the track posts for the bike lanes?
-
Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on
-
Exactamente. There is nothing inherently magical about a bicycle that turns a jackass into Mother Teresa, it brings out the best in some people, and exacerbates the worst in others.
That said, there is something inherent to riding a bike that makes cycling more acutely aware of their surroundings, and there is nothing about a car that seems to bring out the best in anybody.
Took Elston>Milwaukee>Kinzie>Clinton>Roosevelt this morning, the Kinzie lane is really quite refreshing, it actually makes you feel like you are welcome on the street.
Too many cyclists on Milwaukee blowing lights and in general acting the fool is another story altogether.
The closest I came to an accident this morning was the cyclist who blew through a red going south where Elston ends at Milwaukee. I had the green/right-of-way as I turned left and almost t-boned him as he didn't even slow down as he blew through.
What is about Milwaukee? It's much worse than Elston, Lincoln, it's even worse than the Lakefront, which is really saying something. On Milwaukee I see cyclists passing cars on the right who are actually doing what they are supposed to and have their turn signals on and have left room for cyclists to get by on their left, cyclists are riding two or three abreast, cyclists are trying to pass the bus on the right, fighting to get past each other at the intersections, ugh. General rules of the road apply to everyone, in that if you're passing someone on the right, you're probably in the wrong.
James BlackHeron said:
You are right that motorists dont' have the monopoly or sole-franchise on being aggressive road users that selfishly and regularly violate other road user's right-of-way.
There are plenty of bicyclists that do it too. The problem with humans is that they are often all too human...
-
Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on
-
I have to resepectfully disagree.
I have a hard time ascribing evil to inanimate objects. Good or bad comes from within ourselves. Lifeless matter, be it liquid/solid/gas harbors no ill will and does not control or influence us any more than the mind lets it (unless it is ingested and effects our internal chemistry, of course.)
Carter O'Brien said:
That said, there is something inherent to riding a bike that makes cycling more acutely aware of their surroundings, and there is nothing about a car that seems to bring out the best in anybody.
-
Permalink Reply by ad on
-
I think it's really just the result of being able to watch 25 or more cyclists at a time on a nice day and how they ultimately behave in traffic. Milwaukee has to be one of the heaviest traveled strips. This is all based on my personal observations and bias, but I would say over 20 of those riders I see are usually responsible enough that they do not end up creating a huge danger for themselves or those around them. The jockeying at lights is annoying, but I tend not to lump it into the category of dangerous conduct. The other 1 or 2 cyclists, though, often act so selfishly (like running clearly red lights, passing turning cars and buses on the right, not yielding for peds.) that it just burns into your mind and erases the vast majority of others you saw acting appropriately.
I've found the exact same thing to be true with car drivers, really. The vast majority of drivers never put me in a dangerous situation; but the ones that do put me in danger often do it in such a selfish and unacceptable manner that it's all I can focus on and remember at times.
And yes, I realize I'm not saying anything all that insightful here.
Carter O'Brien said:What is about Milwaukee? It's much worse than Elston, Lincoln, it's even worse than the Lakefront, which is really saying something. On Milwaukee I see cyclists passing cars on the right who are actually doing what they are supposed to and have their turn signals on and have left room for cyclists to get by on their left, cyclists are riding two or three abreast, cyclists are trying to pass the bus on the right, fighting to get past each other at the intersections, ugh. General rules of the road apply to everyone, in that if you're passing someone on the right, you're probably in the wrong.James BlackHeron said:
You are right that motorists dont' have the monopoly or sole-franchise on being aggressive road users that selfishly and regularly violate other road user's right-of-way.
There are plenty of bicyclists that do it too. The problem with humans is that they are often all too human...
-
-
I was thinking about this as I rode in and having very similar thoughts. It's much like the gun debate, actually, right? How can the inanimate object be the problem, etc.
And while I do definitely agree with you in the larger sense, specific to the bike-vs-car debate, I think the fact that a car removes you from your surroundings while also allowing you to accelerate using external energy instead of internal energy are key factors to consider. I drive a lot more than I'd like to, and I can tell you there is definitely a shift in how people act when they feel protected by a hulking piece of machinery. And I've spoken to many (too many!) people who told me they bought an SUV in the City precisely as they liked lording over other traffic, feeling like people moved out of the way for them, etc.
Additionally, it takes no effort at all for a motorist to go from zero to 60, and if they have to brake and repeat, it's not noticeable until the fuel gauge hits empty, and that's pretty far removed from the actions involved (I do have some hope that hybrids will help chill drivers out). When I bike I am totally cognizant of not only the traffic, but the wind, the street condition, and I'm watching (and in some intersections I'm really familiar with, counting) that Don't Walk sign flashing so I know if it's worth it to pedal harder to get through, or if I should just coast as I'm going to miss the light anyway.
I remember way back in the 80s reading a Royko column where he interviewed a whole bunch of different folks about driving downtown, truck delivery drivers, taxi drivers, commuters, etc.. And the takeaway was "driving downtown is WAR." The problem for us as cyclists is we are at a pretty severe disadvantage in that arms race. I guess we can at least be thankful that the SUV craze seems to have finally toned down. : )
James BlackHeron said:
I have to resepectfully disagree.
I have a hard time ascribing evil to inanimate objects. Good or bad comes from within ourselves. Lifeless matter, be it liquid/solid/gas harbors no ill will and does not control or influence us any more than the mind lets it (unless it is ingested and effects our internal chemistry, of course.)
Carter O'Brien said:
That said, there is something inherent to riding a bike that makes cycling more acutely aware of their surroundings, and there is nothing about a car that seems to bring out the best in anybody.
-
-
All very true regarding how easy it is to obsess on the negative. The lakefront is a great example of that. But specific to Milwaukee, it does seem to be in a league of its own. Yes, it is among the (if not the champ) highly trafficked streets, but why is that? Elston arguably isn't as convenient for as many folks as so much of it is still industrial, but Lincoln Ave is a diagonal going through high-density neighborhoods and it is like Shangri-La compared to Milwaukee.
Perhaps it's due to Milwaukee being a bit more stressful as it's a narrower street, which results in people feeling a greater need to move away from the sidewalk/parked cars? I dunno, I'm genuinely curious, as I'd love to see Milwaukee become a poster child for an extended protected lane/to have a lane of parking completely taken away. IMO that's completely justifiable on 2 grounds, that you have the Blue line running along it, and as people who want to drive have the highway running along side it as well. I don't buy the arguments that less parking will kill the businesses, Revolution Brewing seems to be doing just fine!
ad said:I think it's really just the result of being able to watch 25 or more cyclists at a time on a nice day and how they ultimately behave in traffic. Milwaukee has to be one of the heaviest traveled strips. This is all based on my personal observations and bias, but I would say over 20 of those riders I see are usually responsible enough that they do not end up creating a huge danger for themselves or those around them. The other 1 or 2 cyclists, though, often act so selfishly that it just burns into your mind and erases the vast majority of others you saw acting appropriately.
I've found the exact same thing to be true with car drivers, really. The vast majority of drivers never put me in a dangerous situation; but the ones that do put me in danger do it in such a selfish and unacceptable manner that it's all I can focus on and remember at times.
-
-
The stretches of Milwaukee I have found to be the worst cyclist conduct-wise are actually past the spot where Elston ends and cyclists flow onto Milwaukee to head into the loop. The stretch between Division and North is absolutely horrible to ride, but that clearly stems from how the street is designed rather than any fellow cyclists' conduct. I live in Ukrainian Village, so Milwaukee is the fastest/easiest route for me, which I imagine is true for most people that are using it to head in.
Carter O'Brien said:
All very true regarding how easy it is to obsess on the negative. The lakefront is a great example of that. But specific to Milwaukee, it does seem to be in a league of its own. Yes, it is among the (if not the champ) highly trafficked streets, but why is that? Elston arguably isn't as convenient for as many folks as so much of it is still industrial, but Lincoln Ave is a diagonal going through high-density neighborhoods and it is like Shangri-La compared to Milwaukee.
Perhaps it's due to Milwaukee being a bit more stressful as it's a narrower street, which results in people feeling a greater need to move away from the sidewalk/parked cars? I dunno, I'm genuinely curious, as I'd love to see Milwaukee become a poster child for an extended protected lane/to have a lane of parking completely taken away. IMO that's completely justifiable on 2 grounds, that you have the Blue line running along it, and as people who want to drive have the highway running along side it as well. I don't buy the arguments that less parking will kill the businesses, Revolution Brewing seems to be doing just fine!
ad said:I think it's really just the result of being able to watch 25 or more cyclists at a time on a nice day and how they ultimately behave in traffic. Milwaukee has to be one of the heaviest traveled strips. This is all based on my personal observations and bias, but I would say over 20 of those riders I see are usually responsible enough that they do not end up creating a huge danger for themselves or those around them. The other 1 or 2 cyclists, though, often act so selfishly that it just burns into your mind and erases the vast majority of others you saw acting appropriately.
I've found the exact same thing to be true with car drivers, really. The vast majority of drivers never put me in a dangerous situation; but the ones that do put me in danger do it in such a selfish and unacceptable manner that it's all I can focus on and remember at times.
-
-
Yep, exactly my experience this morning re: Elston. The 6 corner at Grand & Halsted is definitely a drag as well. Hopefully the new Administration will continue making progress, I will say this is a pretty exciting and optimistic time to be a cyclist in Chicago!
ad said:
The stretches of Milwaukee I have found to be the worst cyclist conduct-wise are actually past the spot where Elston ends and cyclists flow onto Milwaukee to head into the loop. The stretch between Division and North is absolutely horrible, but that seems more a function of how the street is designed than cyclists' conduct. I live in Ukrainian Village, so Milwaukee is the fastest/easiest route for me, which I imagine is true for most people that are using it to head in.
-
-
The problem comes when people start treating people like things*.
When we see other people (and other traffic) as things that are in our way, just things to drive/ride around as fast as we can getting to where we want to go in the shortest possible time, rather than people who are also using the road -that is when we start to have real problems.
People aren't things and when we think of them as things we degrade and devalue them. This is what is happening to some people when they are in cars and see other cars as just moving boxes in their way. But I can't ascribe to your theory that it is the fault of the car. Treating things as people -or giving them motives, faults, and powers they don't have is just as risky, IMHO. Without people cars are just lumps of metal waiting to be driven (bikes too.) Blaming the lump of metal instead of the mind behind the steering wheel only lessens the responsibility of the mind in control of it, and only makes it more likely that they will act like clowns out on the road .
People != things.
* with a nod to Granny Weatherwax and Terry Pratchett.
-
Permalink Reply by Joel on
-
I'm surprised no one else commented on this, because it is a big problem. The city doesn't own the on metered spots anymore. They even have to pay LAZ when closing a street for a festival. So don't expect any metered spots to disappear in the next couple decades.
James BlackHeron said:
Not going to happen.
LAZ
in it to win it said:move parking off those streets altogether and use the sides outside the track posts for the bike lanes?
-
-
I think we could probably debate the nuances here all day (which I'd love, but I have to get back to work), but they're largely semantic I think, as I'm 99%+ on board with you here. It's not that it's the fault of the car, it's just that the car helps enable the problematic aspects of human nature you're describing in a scale that is relatively new/disproportionate to urban civilization.
Appreciate the conversation, you gave me some good food for thought for the ride home!
James BlackHeron said:The problem comes when people start treating people like things*.
When we see other people (and other traffic) as things that are in our way, just things to drive/ride around as fast as we can getting to where we want to go in the shortest possible time, rather than people who are also using the road -that is when we start to have real problems.
People aren't things and when we think of them as things we degrade and devalue them. This is what is happening to some people when they are in cars and see other cars as just moving boxes in their way. But I can't ascribe to your theory that it is the fault of the car. Treating things as people -or giving them motives, faults, and powers they don't have is just as risky, IMHO. Without people cars are just lumps of metal waiting to be driven (bikes too.) Blaming the lump of metal instead of the mind behind the steering wheel only lessens the responsibility of the mind in control of it, and only makes it more likely that they will act like clowns out on the road .
People != things.
* with a nod to Granny Weatherwax and Terry Pratchett.
-
Permalink Reply by Mark on
-
More like the next 75 years!
Joel said:
I'm surprised no one else commented on this, because it is a big problem. The city doesn't own the on metered spots anymore. They even have to pay LAZ when closing a street for a festival. So don't expect any metered spots to disappear in the next couple decades.
James BlackHeron said:Not going to happen.
LAZ
in it to win it said:move parking off those streets altogether and use the sides outside the track posts for the bike lanes?
Groups
-
Critical Mass discussion
262 members
-
Chicagoland Beer Explora…
203 members
-
Chicago Randonneurs
269 members
-
Walk Bike Transit
63 members
-
British Bicycles of Chic…
172 members
© 2008-2016 The Chainlink Community, L.L.C.
Powered by
