Moderators Should Use A Light Handed Approach, IMO - The Chainlink2024-03-29T04:55:30Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A857687&feed=yes&xn_auth=noHi all,
Since my 2 requests…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-19:2211490:Comment:8576372014-09-19T02:28:16.417ZKatiePhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/katiep
<p>Hi all,</p>
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<p>Since my 2 requests that this thread be friendly were not listened to by all, I'm going to put this one on discussion hold. I understand there are hurt feelings, but I think we can try to remember we all share the road and, in turn, this forum. I love sarcasm as much as the next, but it feels like this thread shifted to hurtful.</p>
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<p>If someone has concerns about this action, let me know. Perhaps we can meet up for a beer or ride to discuss it and think…</p>
<p>Hi all,</p>
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<p>Since my 2 requests that this thread be friendly were not listened to by all, I'm going to put this one on discussion hold. I understand there are hurt feelings, but I think we can try to remember we all share the road and, in turn, this forum. I love sarcasm as much as the next, but it feels like this thread shifted to hurtful.</p>
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<p>If someone has concerns about this action, let me know. Perhaps we can meet up for a beer or ride to discuss it and think things through.</p>
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<p>-Katie</p>
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<p></p> That doesn't surprise me comi…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-19:2211490:Comment:8577942014-09-19T00:24:58.608ZTandemoniumhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/BentonJohnson
<p>That doesn't surprise me coming from a guy with this bio:</p>
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<dt>About me:</dt>
<dd>I'm an American hero. I wear an American flag cape. When I'm not on my bike, I'm riding a bald eagle, the most badass bird that ever took a shit on your car.</dd>
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<p><cite>Tristan Jackson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo#2211490Comment857687"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>In my mind, I…</p>
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<p>That doesn't surprise me coming from a guy with this bio:</p>
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<dt>About me:</dt>
<dd>I'm an American hero. I wear an American flag cape. When I'm not on my bike, I'm riding a bald eagle, the most badass bird that ever took a shit on your car.</dd>
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<p><cite>Tristan Jackson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo#2211490Comment857687"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>In my mind, I wasn't me who set off those fights.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Tandemonium said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo#2211490Comment857779"><div><div class="xg_user_generated">Amazing. The kid who sets off a series of fights leading to more moderation is now crying about the increase in moderation. -1 for you today.</div>
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</blockquote> The above is a representation…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8576262014-09-18T23:24:58.756Zh' Zerocatshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/H3N3
<p><a href="http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/381/defe/rep/reportjune8_files/image004.jpg" target="_blank"><img class="align-full" src="http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/381/defe/rep/reportjune8_files/image004.jpg"></img></a> The above is a representation of the force/action continuum that's (hopefully) drilled into law enforcement officers.</p>
<p>Applied to 'moderating' this forum, it would look like this:</p>
<p>1) Presence. Just making a point to be visible, e.g. a post to a contentuous discussion: "hey folks, just a reminder to keep it civil, thanks :-) -mod"</p>
<p>2)…</p>
<p><a target="_blank" href="http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/381/defe/rep/reportjune8_files/image004.jpg"><img class="align-full" src="http://www.parl.gc.ca/content/sen/committee/381/defe/rep/reportjune8_files/image004.jpg"/></a>The above is a representation of the force/action continuum that's (hopefully) drilled into law enforcement officers.</p>
<p>Applied to 'moderating' this forum, it would look like this:</p>
<p>1) Presence. Just making a point to be visible, e.g. a post to a contentuous discussion: "hey folks, just a reminder to keep it civil, thanks :-) -mod"</p>
<p>2) Communication. What Duppie did here.</p>
<p>3) Physical control. Soft: 1:1 communication with clear limits and consequences. Harder: Closing a discussion. Hard: Removing content. Temporary ban.</p>
<p>4) Lethal force. Permanent ban.</p>
<p>It seems a step got skipped here.</p> Some of the posts in this thr…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8575282014-09-18T23:05:31.624ZAlex Zhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/AlexZ
<p>Some of the posts in this thread seem to indicate a delusional perception of reality. I applaud the efforts to increase civility on the Chainlink in an effort to foster a more inclusive community.</p>
<p>Some of the posts in this thread seem to indicate a delusional perception of reality. I applaud the efforts to increase civility on the Chainlink in an effort to foster a more inclusive community.</p> David Barish said:
I starte…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8575242014-09-18T22:21:04.961ZSimon Phearsonhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/SimonPhearson
<p><br></br> <br></br> <cite>David Barish said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A857469&page=3#2211490Comment857698"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I started to write a PM to you but decided, based on your posts, that you would prefer a public response.</p>
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<p>Quite right. If you had PM'd me, I would have…</p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>David Barish said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A857469&page=3#2211490Comment857698"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I started to write a PM to you but decided, based on your posts, that you would prefer a public response.</p>
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<p>Quite right. If you had PM'd me, I would have posted the response here.</p>
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<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A857469&page=3#2211490Comment857698"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>One of the tools we use is a private message before taking any action. The thought was to send Tristan a private message reminding him of where the line is as it was felt the thread was getting hot and that the thread was a post or two away from devolving into a flame war requiring us to take specific action.</p>
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<div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>But again - "reminding him of where the line is" - just framing it that way implies several things. One, that the "line" articulated by the rule was already clear; two, that Tristan had either crossed or was getting close to crossing it; and three, that there was really no room for debate in the matter. This is not, in my view, a productive way of clarifying to Tristan the application of the rule against "personal attacks," which he has very aptly demonstrated here. It comes off as condescending and insulting. And given the case in which it was invoked, it's hard to predict exactly <em>what</em> could cross the line suggested by Duppie's response to Tristan.</p>
<p>The typical mod response to this line is to say, "Well, if it's that hard for you to follow the rule..." Is that where you're going to go next?</p>
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<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A857469&page=3#2211490Comment857698"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Alike the bureaucrats you may find in your life, we prefer to do nothing. Thus, Tristan was sent a gentle reminder. He was not punished, censured, suspended, chastised or terminated.</p>
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<p>What Tristan received was a "gentle reminder," from a moderator, that his actions were "not allowed." This is moderator action, and it constituted a warning. The implicit sense is that, if it were not heeded, further moderator action (including something you'd acknowledge to be "punishment") would be taken. So let's not try to dress this up as taking a light hand or somehow not getting involved.</p>
<p>I have seen precisely this dynamic before - mods end up exercising their authority in order to go significantly off-script when "enforcing" the "rules." When it's pointed out that, hey, it's not <em>actually</em> against any rule to use the words "entitled asshole," when characterizing a set of behaviors someone admits to having engaged in, the moderator action is defended as just a "gentle reminder" or "polite note" - to do exactly what the moderator says.</p>
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<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A857469&page=3#2211490Comment857698"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p> He then chose to take it public. So be it. </p>
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<div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I think anyone who feels they've been unfairly targeted should do so. I would prefer to know whether it's worth investing my time in this community, before I find that investment thrown out summarily because I can't convince a moderator that I've done nothing wrong.</p>
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</div> Hi guys and gals-
A (re) re…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8577012014-09-18T21:44:30.575ZKatiePhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/katiep
<p>Hi guys and gals- </p>
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<p>A (re) reminder. I think the points have been covered and we hear you. Let's all use this as a lesson learned. Please no more finger pointing or name calling.</p>
<p><br/>Katie</p>
<p>Hi guys and gals- </p>
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<p>A (re) reminder. I think the points have been covered and we hear you. Let's all use this as a lesson learned. Please no more finger pointing or name calling.</p>
<p><br/>Katie</p> I started to write a PM to yo…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8576982014-09-18T21:36:42.979ZDavid Barishhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DavidBarish
<p>I started to write a PM to you but decided, based on your posts, that you would prefer a public response. In contacting you I am in no way concerned with your behavior on the thread. You raised a point that was a good one and I felt compelled to respond. One of the tools we use is a private message before taking any action. The thought was to send Tristan a private message reminding him of where the line is as it was felt the thread was getting hot and that the thread was a post or two away…</p>
<p>I started to write a PM to you but decided, based on your posts, that you would prefer a public response. In contacting you I am in no way concerned with your behavior on the thread. You raised a point that was a good one and I felt compelled to respond. One of the tools we use is a private message before taking any action. The thought was to send Tristan a private message reminding him of where the line is as it was felt the thread was getting hot and that the thread was a post or two away from devolving into a flame war requiring us to take specific action. Alike the bureaucrats you may find in your life, we prefer to do nothing. Thus, Tristan was sent a gentle reminder. He was not punished, censured, suspended, chastised or terminated. I can see both sides of this - 1) a delicate reminder to head off a problem v. 2) a little too much big brother. He then chose to take it public. So be it. <br/> <cite>Simon Phearson said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A857693&x=1#2211490Comment857620"><div><p>Personally, I think the way to create a stronger sense of community is for moderators to step into threads and try to guide them in productive directions, when they're not productive, rather than to send warnings to discussion participants that no one else sees or learns from.</p>
<p>Tristan at least arguably called Martin an "entitled asshole" for standing at a drive-thru window, inconveniencing a bunch of workers and bystanders, and then ostentatiously wasting food in order to prove some point about being served at a drive-thru while riding a bike. Besides being a defensible characterization, that statement didn't seem to have prevented anyone else from participating in that discussion in their own ways, and it didn't seem to veer into a counter-productive slugfest. </p>
<p>So why was there any need to get involved? </p>
<p>I just don't know who these would-be participants are supposed to be. Here we have an active thread with participants who seem to be enjoying themselves; we're talking about coming down harder on some of them, so that people who aren't participating <em>might</em>?</p>
<p>This isn't the sort of, "no one's going to like being subjected to moderator action" situation you're referring to. This is an approach to moderation that's hard to make sense of. You can even see that here! Lots of people are openly attacking Tristan and chiding him for being <em>rude. </em>Well - when did <em>that</em> become against the rules?</p>
<p>This is unwinding in completely predictable fashion. People who complain about not wanting to participate in a community where they might occasionally be called names are not going to start participating, once they no longer feel that's a risk. There are plenty of threads where that never happens! This community isn't going to seem any more fun or welcoming to them once it's policed into order. Just deader and less interesting. And these mysteriously silent people are <em>still</em> not going to participate, no matter how they justify their inaction now.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Anne Alt said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A857469&page=2#2211490Comment857688"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>Moderation is always a judgment call. No matter what we do, someone will take exception to it. <br/><br/>There are many more people who would enjoy participating in Chainlink discussions if there were fewer personal attacks. I would be happy to see more of them join in. <br/><br/>I appreciate what Tom said above. Who else would like to join in creating a greater sense of community rather than an arena full of verbal slugfests?</p>
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</blockquote> Oh my lord, somebody sent you…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8575212014-09-18T21:35:32.321ZDoug Hayneshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DougHaynes
<p>Oh my lord, somebody sent you a rather polite note asking you to tone down calling people names!!</p>
<p>How shall <strong>free speech </strong>and the exchange of ideas ever survive this travesty!?</p>
<p>Are you fucking kidding me?</p>
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<p>No, really, are you?</p>
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<p>You called somebody an asshole and got asked to stop, is that really that big a deal? </p>
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<p>Are you not capable of expressing yourself without calling somebody an asshole? Because that is basically…</p>
<p>Oh my lord, somebody sent you a rather polite note asking you to tone down calling people names!!</p>
<p>How shall <strong>free speech </strong>and the exchange of ideas ever survive this travesty!?</p>
<p>Are you fucking kidding me?</p>
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<p>No, really, are you?</p>
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<p>You called somebody an asshole and got asked to stop, is that really that big a deal? </p>
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<p>Are you not capable of expressing yourself without calling somebody an asshole? Because that is basically what you are saying here.</p>
<p>Censorship and moderation are things that should be well thought out and controlled because when they are let run wild they can prevent people from expressing their feelings and ideas. </p>
<p>Has anyone here done that? </p>
<p>All that happened was you were asked to not call names and use some offensive language moving forward, your post was not even edited or removed. I fail to see how you are a victim of anything here unless you are really so simple minded and inarticulate that you could not have expressed how you felt without calling somebody an asshole.</p>
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<p>I also think it is worth pointing out that you, the guy who called somebody else entitled, are having a fit because somebody asked you not to do something....</p> Simon - Thanks! Not heavy-han…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8576972014-09-18T21:27:14.182ZKatiePhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/katiep
<p>Simon - Thanks! Not heavy-handed at all. More like a verbal bear hug!</p>
<p>Simon - Thanks! Not heavy-handed at all. More like a verbal bear hug!</p> This.
Liz said:
I think mode…tag:thechainlink.org,2014-09-18:2211490:Comment:8577872014-09-18T21:26:32.691Zh' Zerocatshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/H3N3
<p>This.</p>
<p><br></br> <cite>Liz said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A857694&xg_source=activity#2211490Comment857694"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I think moderating should only be transparent when one of the following occurs: Someone is banned (temp or perm), posts are deleted, or a thread is closed. Otherwise handle your business privately.…</p>
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<p>This.</p>
<p><br/> <cite>Liz said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/moderators-should-use-a-light-handed-approach-imo?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A857694&xg_source=activity#2211490Comment857694"><div><div class="xg_user_generated"><p>I think moderating should only be transparent when one of the following occurs: Someone is banned (temp or perm), posts are deleted, or a thread is closed. Otherwise handle your business privately. </p>
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