Interview with WWTW's Geoffrey Baer about "Biking the Boulevards" on VWYF - The Chainlink2024-03-29T04:59:32Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/interview-with-wwtws-geoffrey?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A266184&feed=yes&xn_auth=noWe finally subscribed to WTTW…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-04:2211490:Comment:2665402010-12-04T04:58:13.881ZAlan Lloydhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/AlanLloyd
We finally subscribed to WTTW after seeing Biking the Boulevards: at the level that gets us the set of 12 Geoffrey Baer DVDs, and we are eagerly awaiting their arrival. They have all been great programs!
We finally subscribed to WTTW after seeing Biking the Boulevards: at the level that gets us the set of 12 Geoffrey Baer DVDs, and we are eagerly awaiting their arrival. They have all been great programs! I've never lived in Little Vi…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-04:2211490:Comment:2664722010-12-04T00:13:18.189ZAnne Althttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Anne91
I've never lived in Little Village, only been there as a visitor. I generally find conditions safer than Lincoln Park, due to the lack of entitled a$$hole drivers.<br></br>
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<cite>Vando said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/interview-with-wwtws-geoffrey?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A266387&x=1#2211490Comment266246"><div>Gotta say, Howard is spot on on this one. I have lived in Little Village forever and I always feel like it gets a bad rep. It is…</div>
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I've never lived in Little Village, only been there as a visitor. I generally find conditions safer than Lincoln Park, due to the lack of entitled a$$hole drivers.<br/>
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<cite>Vando said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/interview-with-wwtws-geoffrey?page=2&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A266387&x=1#2211490Comment266246"><div>Gotta say, Howard is spot on on this one. I have lived in Little Village forever and I always feel like it gets a bad rep. It is nowhere near as bad as most people think. As a matter of fact, I think people would be surprised to find a community of decent hard-working people. Do we have our share of knuckle heads, sure, but this is Chicago. Personally, I think cyclists in Little Village have less to worry about when it comes to violence against them or even bike theft, than other "nicer areas" on the north side.</div>
</blockquote> Yes, definitely interested in…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2663872010-12-03T18:35:44.503Zh' Zerocatshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/H3N3
Yes, definitely interested in how you arrived at those numbers (that's why I asked.)<br />
The question of whether portions of the Boulevard were under-represented, and what the possible motivation behind that may be, is not off-topic but a valid discussion point.<br />
I don't think I imagined that it was declared to be "foolish" to "ride alone" on this portion of the Boulevard, and I reject your insinuation that there's something irrational about speaking up when something you care about it wrongly…
Yes, definitely interested in how you arrived at those numbers (that's why I asked.)<br />
The question of whether portions of the Boulevard were under-represented, and what the possible motivation behind that may be, is not off-topic but a valid discussion point.<br />
I don't think I imagined that it was declared to be "foolish" to "ride alone" on this portion of the Boulevard, and I reject your insinuation that there's something irrational about speaking up when something you care about it wrongly disparaged, and that there's something irrational about offering daily, real-life, long term familiarity in response to a set of "data" with no reference, context, or specific parameters adequate enough to reproduce it. After a read of last night's…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2663852010-12-03T18:22:57.991ZDon Phttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DonP
After a read of last night's postings, I get it that you are proud of your neighborhood, and react quickly and unkindly to any affront, real or imagined. As indicated in my last post, I took exception to your response to Alan, and decided to check the CPD website, basing the search on your response.<br />
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Being informed is more than observation and experience. The results did not correspond to my prior experiences in Little Village, but the data is real, nonetheless. As long as the data perimeters…
After a read of last night's postings, I get it that you are proud of your neighborhood, and react quickly and unkindly to any affront, real or imagined. As indicated in my last post, I took exception to your response to Alan, and decided to check the CPD website, basing the search on your response.<br />
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Being informed is more than observation and experience. The results did not correspond to my prior experiences in Little Village, but the data is real, nonetheless. As long as the data perimeters are agreed, your interpretation is no more or less valid than mine. "Objective proof" is your term, not mine.<br />
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As a recreational biker, often solo, passing through any given area, my concern is not actual crime activity per se, but the accompanying collateral mayhem it produces; quite often on the streets on which we ride. It does not keep me away from an area, but it does influence how I approach it.<br />
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I stand by the numbers quoted in my first post. I'll be happy to share how the CPD data was run, so my results can be verified, if it matters to you. Message me via Chainlink, and I'll respond as far as you want to take this, time permitting.<br />
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The thread is wildly off topic; something that appears to happen often on this site. For my part, apologies go out to all that expected to read comments on Geoffrey Baer's excellent show.<br />
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<cite>H3N3 said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/interview-with-wwtws-geoffrey?id=2211490%3ATopic%3A264722&page=2#2211490Comment266184"><div>The data as presented on the police site is certainly interesting and perhaps useful as part of a larger assessment, but considering its application is confounded by a multitude of possible factors, as you admit, I find it disingenuous to present it as any sort of "objective proof" of anything, especially as it relates to the declaration an entire city area as "sketchy" and the passage of a particular artery by bicycle as "foolish."<br/>Not sure how you can defend the way this was expressed as a "legitimate concern".</div>
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Reply by H3N3 15 hours ago<br />
I don't know how you were able to search a whole month, but I'm returning wildly different numbers than you posted.<br />
For 9/17 to 9/30, 1/2 mile radius centered on:<br />
3000 W. Cermak: 7 incidents<br />
3000 W. Division: 31 incidents<br />
That's with the initial defaults checked, 8 AM to 5 PM. Gotta say, Howard is spot on…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2662462010-12-03T13:23:22.688ZVondohttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Vando
Gotta say, Howard is spot on on this one. I have lived in Little Village forever and I always feel like it gets a bad rep. It is nowhere near as bad as most people think. As a matter of fact, I think people would be surprised to find a community of decent hard-working people. Do we have our share of knuckle heads, sure, but this is Chicago. Personally, I think cyclists in Little Village have less to worry about when it comes to violence against them or even bike theft, than other "nicer areas"…
Gotta say, Howard is spot on on this one. I have lived in Little Village forever and I always feel like it gets a bad rep. It is nowhere near as bad as most people think. As a matter of fact, I think people would be surprised to find a community of decent hard-working people. Do we have our share of knuckle heads, sure, but this is Chicago. Personally, I think cyclists in Little Village have less to worry about when it comes to violence against them or even bike theft, than other "nicer areas" on the north side. True, sorry.
You said you'd b…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2662302010-12-03T06:26:15.501Zh' Zerocatshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/H3N3
True, sorry.<br />
You said you'd be afraid to ride this entire stretch of boulevard alone, and expressed that you found it amusing that this part of the boulevard was mostly glossed over in the documentary, and Don P said he considered it foolish to ride this stretch of boulevard alone.<br />
Forgive the innaccuracy.<br />
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<cite>Alan Lloyd said:…</cite>
True, sorry.<br />
You said you'd be afraid to ride this entire stretch of boulevard alone, and expressed that you found it amusing that this part of the boulevard was mostly glossed over in the documentary, and Don P said he considered it foolish to ride this stretch of boulevard alone.<br />
Forgive the innaccuracy.<br />
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<cite>Alan Lloyd said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/interview-with-wwtws-geoffrey?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A264722&page=2#2211490Comment266222"><div>FWIW I didn't say that the area was "sketchy", I said the coverage of the route from Cook County Jail to Douglas Park and on to Garfield Park was sketchy - intending to mean it was glossed over, they didn't dwell on it, in fact they hardly spent any time at all on it.<br/> <br/>
And apologies to anyone I may have offended with what was meant to be a fairly light hearted observation.</div>
</blockquote> FWIW I didn't say that the ar…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2662222010-12-03T05:31:08.963ZAlan Lloydhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/AlanLloyd
FWIW I didn't say that the area was "sketchy", I said the coverage of the route from Cook County Jail to Douglas Park and on to Garfield Park was sketchy - intending to mean it was glossed over, they didn't dwell on it, in fact they hardly spent any time at all on it.<br />
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And apologies to anyone I may have offended with what was meant to be a fairly light hearted observation.
FWIW I didn't say that the area was "sketchy", I said the coverage of the route from Cook County Jail to Douglas Park and on to Garfield Park was sketchy - intending to mean it was glossed over, they didn't dwell on it, in fact they hardly spent any time at all on it.<br />
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And apologies to anyone I may have offended with what was meant to be a fairly light hearted observation. I don't know how you were abl…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2661862010-12-03T02:29:13.606Zh' Zerocatshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/H3N3
I don't know how you were able to search a whole month, but I'm returning wildly different numbers than you posted.<br />
For 9/17 to 9/30, 1/2 mile radius centered on:<br />
3000 W. Cermak: 7 incidents<br />
3000 W. Division: 31 incidents<br />
That's with the initial defaults checked, 8 AM to 5 PM.
I don't know how you were able to search a whole month, but I'm returning wildly different numbers than you posted.<br />
For 9/17 to 9/30, 1/2 mile radius centered on:<br />
3000 W. Cermak: 7 incidents<br />
3000 W. Division: 31 incidents<br />
That's with the initial defaults checked, 8 AM to 5 PM. The data as presented on the…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2661842010-12-03T02:11:47.005Zh' Zerocatshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/H3N3
The data as presented on the police site is certainly interesting and perhaps useful as part of a larger assessment, but considering its application is confounded by a multitude of possible factors, as you admit, I find it disingenuous to present it as any sort of "objective proof" of anything, especially as it relates to the declaration an entire city area as "sketchy" and the passage of a particular artery by bicycle as "foolish."<br />
Not sure how you can defend the way this was expressed as a…
The data as presented on the police site is certainly interesting and perhaps useful as part of a larger assessment, but considering its application is confounded by a multitude of possible factors, as you admit, I find it disingenuous to present it as any sort of "objective proof" of anything, especially as it relates to the declaration an entire city area as "sketchy" and the passage of a particular artery by bicycle as "foolish."<br />
Not sure how you can defend the way this was expressed as a "legitimate concern". I liked the documentary, espe…tag:thechainlink.org,2010-12-03:2211490:Comment:2661752010-12-03T00:09:11.888ZDon Phttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DonP
I liked the documentary, especially the historical aspects, but agree that it was slanted to the perception that "everything is great for bike riders in Chicago".<br />
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I took exception to the "poorly informed....keep unfounded biases to themselves" statement. That statement was a response to a legitmate concern about riding solo from Cook County Jail to Douglas to Garfield, and it didn't sound to me like unfounded bias. A good answer could have been "there are no issues CCJ to Douglas", and I would…
I liked the documentary, especially the historical aspects, but agree that it was slanted to the perception that "everything is great for bike riders in Chicago".<br />
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I took exception to the "poorly informed....keep unfounded biases to themselves" statement. That statement was a response to a legitmate concern about riding solo from Cook County Jail to Douglas to Garfield, and it didn't sound to me like unfounded bias. A good answer could have been "there are no issues CCJ to Douglas", and I would of agreed. Personally, I have been through Little Village on my bike, solo, more than a few times, have been the scenery, had no issues, and didn't expect any.<br />
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The September reported crime incidents, centered within 1/2 mile of Marshall and Cermak, happened during the day, when a single recreational rider is likely to ride. That's being informed. Would you rather people be uninformed? I was surprised by the number of incidents reported during the day, as my personal experience in the area gave no indication. My situational awareness will be higher in future rides.<br />
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I'm wondering how an objective evaluation of the facts can be seen as insulting bias. All neighborhoods experience crime, some more, some less. It is up to the individual to determine their threshold of acceptable risk. I'll leave judgment to the individual recreational rider from outside your neighborhood that wants to take the ride.<br />
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I'm sure your testimonial will be of great comfort to the individual recreational rider contemplating a boulevard tour.<br />
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<cite>H3N3 said:</cite><blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/interview-with-wwtws-geoffrey?id=2211490%3ATopic%3A264722&page=2#2211490Comment266091"><div>I'm sorry, but I live and work in the area you're referring to, I've spent most of my life for the last 8 years travelling that area by bike and by foot at all hours of day and night and I've never been subject to threatening behavior (except the usual distracted/sloppy driving) or heard of a bicyclist being attacked in any way.<br/>Keep your uninformed and insulting biases about other people's neighborhoods to yourself.<br/><br/><br/>
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