Dickens bike greenway - The Chainlink2024-03-28T14:55:46Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/dickens-bike-greenway?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A1123115&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI live just off the Glenwood…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-06-05:2211490:Comment:11235432019-06-05T20:08:28.385ZMarkhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Mark314
<p>I live just off the Glenwood Greenway in Andersonville. When the Greenways were first rolled out, I was a skeptic who felt they were a needless accommodation to "salmon" who were too lazy to ride a block over to ride in the direction of traffic. But after riding the Glenwood Greenway, I am now a believer. The addition of the contra-flow lane and 20 mph speed limit make it clear that bikes have priority on this street. Now I'd like to see Leavitt get the treatment as an alternative to…</p>
<p>I live just off the Glenwood Greenway in Andersonville. When the Greenways were first rolled out, I was a skeptic who felt they were a needless accommodation to "salmon" who were too lazy to ride a block over to ride in the direction of traffic. But after riding the Glenwood Greenway, I am now a believer. The addition of the contra-flow lane and 20 mph speed limit make it clear that bikes have priority on this street. Now I'd like to see Leavitt get the treatment as an alternative to Damen.</p> Here you go: https://chi.stre…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-06-04:2211490:Comment:11233672019-06-04T17:12:25.749ZJohn Greenfieldhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/JohnGreenfield
<p>Here you go: <a href="https://chi.streetsblog.org/2019/05/31/dickens-greenway-nimbys-are-more-worried-about-being-hit-by-cyclists-than-drivers/" target="_blank">https://chi.streetsblog.org/2019/05/31/dickens-greenway-nimbys-are-more-worried-about-being-hit-by-cyclists-than-drivers/</a></p>
<p>Here you go: <a href="https://chi.streetsblog.org/2019/05/31/dickens-greenway-nimbys-are-more-worried-about-being-hit-by-cyclists-than-drivers/" target="_blank">https://chi.streetsblog.org/2019/05/31/dickens-greenway-nimbys-are-more-worried-about-being-hit-by-cyclists-than-drivers/</a></p> The data and experiences seem…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-06-03:2211490:Comment:11235842019-06-03T17:49:37.972Zketoguychicagohttps://thechainlink.org/profile/ketoguychicago
<p>The data and experiences seem quite varied. Info is based on what the residents relay with respect to bike/pedestrian incidents, and who have complained that the related data is not being gathered. After one such incident, a police officer apparently explained "there's nothing we can do...." I'm not sure if that related to forms, formats, databases, procedures, or other limitations, and it is hard to say what the more complete data would demonstrate. Surely people don't like the car…</p>
<p>The data and experiences seem quite varied. Info is based on what the residents relay with respect to bike/pedestrian incidents, and who have complained that the related data is not being gathered. After one such incident, a police officer apparently explained "there's nothing we can do...." I'm not sure if that related to forms, formats, databases, procedures, or other limitations, and it is hard to say what the more complete data would demonstrate. Surely people don't like the car crashes either, but that doesn't come across as the dominant concern. </p>
<p>Some residents don't see that the traffic calming measures will cause cyclists to stop at the intersections, which as opposed to cars, is largely the complaint in that forum. They went so far as to ask for cyclist traffic enforcement. While others find this ironic, it remains an unreconciled and "at-odds" perspective. </p>
<p>To the extent people imagine more cyclists would be drawn to the area, it is presumed these incidents would increase. That may be incorrect, but trust is down and some residents appear to feel this is being done to them, not for them, and if it goes ahead they seem to fear they have little recourse to reverse it if things go poorly. </p>
<p>A Streetblog article recounting the meeting from one point of view had touched on some of the incongruity between certain data and the contrasting perspectives of residents. These differing viewpoints catch some people off guard. I think the link is elsewhere it this thread but if I try to search for it now I'll lose this draft. </p> I live in this neighborhood t…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-06-03:2211490:Comment:11233972019-06-03T16:54:07.338ZPhillip Hutchinsonhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/PhillipHutchinson
<p>I live in this neighborhood too. I have a young daughter who will attend Oscar Mayer. I use the local parks, schools, transit, etc. I cross Dickens daily and have never observed any concerns about cyclists there. I'm not dismissing anyone's point of view, I'm simply stating my own, which is also that of a local resident with kids, and should be seen as equally valid as someone who is opposed to the project. I want this project done to my neighborhood, for me and my neighbors and anyone else…</p>
<p>I live in this neighborhood too. I have a young daughter who will attend Oscar Mayer. I use the local parks, schools, transit, etc. I cross Dickens daily and have never observed any concerns about cyclists there. I'm not dismissing anyone's point of view, I'm simply stating my own, which is also that of a local resident with kids, and should be seen as equally valid as someone who is opposed to the project. I want this project done to my neighborhood, for me and my neighbors and anyone else who wants to safely walk or bike in my neighborhood (which includes many students at Oscar Mayer and Lincoln Park HS who come from outside the neighborhood).</p>
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<p>I frequently observe careless and dangerous behavior by motorists on residential streets in my neighborhood, and I am far more concerned about that (especially at 4-way stops) than I am the behavior of cyclists at those same intersections. </p>
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<p>Looking further at the crash data I provided, the number of motorist crashes on Dickens has been going up.</p>
<p>2015: 3 <br/>2016: 3</p>
<p>2017: 8</p>
<p>2018: 16 </p>
<p>2019: 5 (so far, the last reported crash was 4/27/2019)</p>
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<p>These 35 motor vehicle crashes in the last 4.5 years seem notable and relevant to the conversation, given that the objection to the project was that it would make the roadway less safe for pedestrians. A major component of a bike greenway is installing traffic calming measures aimed at slowing down motorists and making pedestrian crossings safer. You mention that there have been "more than that in terms of cycle-on-pedestrian injuries". What info are you basing this comment on? If those crashes are happening, would those same traffic-calming/pedestrian visibility improvements to Dickens also reduce them?</p> Phillip that is important dat…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-06-03:2211490:Comment:11233942019-06-03T15:49:17.822Zketoguychicagohttps://thechainlink.org/profile/ketoguychicago
<p>Phillip that is important data that tallies to 1 motor vehicle pedestrian injury since 2015 as we read that bolded text, which is too many. To acknowledge the Dickens' residents point of view which is worthy of consideration, there have been more than that in terms of cycle-on-pedestrian injuries, hence their expressed desire for cycle stop sign enforcement, and, to cure the under-reporting of cycling incidents. At issue here is reconciling the point of view of the people who live in this…</p>
<p>Phillip that is important data that tallies to 1 motor vehicle pedestrian injury since 2015 as we read that bolded text, which is too many. To acknowledge the Dickens' residents point of view which is worthy of consideration, there have been more than that in terms of cycle-on-pedestrian injuries, hence their expressed desire for cycle stop sign enforcement, and, to cure the under-reporting of cycling incidents. At issue here is reconciling the point of view of the people who live in this area, who are eager to have a project done for them rather than to them, and is in the interests of safety for everyone. Without acknowledging and planning to address their concerns, it is proving difficult to gain their agreement and move toward safety improvements. </p> I have not gone a single day…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-06-03:2211490:Comment:11235732019-06-03T15:16:49.778ZDavid P.https://thechainlink.org/profile/DavidAPertuz
<p>I have not gone a single day anywhere in Chicago without seeing drivers roll through stop signs many, many, many times a day. I often see people go through neighborhood 4-ways at about 15mph. </p>
<p>I have not gone a single day anywhere in Chicago without seeing drivers roll through stop signs many, many, many times a day. I often see people go through neighborhood 4-ways at about 15mph. </p> Obviously my post was anecdot…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-06-03:2211490:Comment:11230722019-06-03T14:53:33.060ZPhillip Hutchinsonhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/PhillipHutchinson
<p>Obviously my post was anecdotal, so here's what the Chicago crash data shows:</p>
<p><a href="https://data.cityofchicago.org/Transportation/Traffic-Crashes-Crashes/85ca-t3if" rel="nofollow">https://data.cityofchicago.org/Transportation/Traffic-Crashes-Crash...</a></p>
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<p>There have been 35 motor vehicle crashes reported on Dickens (Stockton to Lakewood) since 2015. This number doesn't include crashes that happened on side-streets intersecting with Dickens. Of those 35 reported…</p>
<p>Obviously my post was anecdotal, so here's what the Chicago crash data shows:</p>
<p><a rel="nofollow" href="https://data.cityofchicago.org/Transportation/Traffic-Crashes-Crashes/85ca-t3if">https://data.cityofchicago.org/Transportation/Traffic-Crashes-Crash...</a></p>
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<p>There have been 35 motor vehicle crashes reported on Dickens (Stockton to Lakewood) since 2015. This number doesn't include crashes that happened on side-streets intersecting with Dickens. Of those 35 reported crashes, 29 occurred during clear weather, and 28 occurred during daylight hours. 13 involved cars hitting parked cars, the other 22 are listed as angle, fixed object, turning, sideswipe or rear end crashes. <strong><span style="text-decoration: underline;">2 pedestrians have been hit, one with injuries. </span></strong></p>
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<p>While most of the causes are listed as unknown, here are a few that were listed: </p>
<p>(1) Operating vehicle in erratic, reckless, careless, negligent or aggressive manner.</p>
<p>(2) Driving skills/knowledge/experience</p>
<p>(2) Failing to yield right of way</p>
<p>(3) Improper backing</p>
<p>(1) Improper turning / no signal<br/>(2) Improper overtaking/passing<br/>(1) Driving the wrong way<br/>(2) Following too closely</p>
<p>(1) Physical condition of driver<br/>(1) Failing to reduce speed to avoid crash</p>
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<p>I stand by my original comment that motorists, not cyclists, are the primary concern in the neighborhood.</p>
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<p></p> Well said. They also didn't r…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-05-31:2211490:Comment:11233772019-05-31T19:14:33.570ZTooscrappshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Tooscrapps
<p>Well said. They also didn't really address the issue of sharing the Oz Park path well, which was friction point.</p>
<p>Ideally, they widen the south path or add parallel bike through the park. However, that was not in the plan because it's Park District turf and either they don't have their buy in or they didn't get the PD involved. I immediately knew that was going to be an issue right off the bat.</p>
<p>Well said. They also didn't really address the issue of sharing the Oz Park path well, which was friction point.</p>
<p>Ideally, they widen the south path or add parallel bike through the park. However, that was not in the plan because it's Park District turf and either they don't have their buy in or they didn't get the PD involved. I immediately knew that was going to be an issue right off the bat.</p> I haven't seen any motorists…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-05-31:2211490:Comment:11234752019-05-31T19:05:39.531ZTooscrappshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Tooscrapps
<p>I haven't seen any motorists "blowing" stop signs, but rather rolling or speeding from one to the next, including box trucks and filled-to-the brim junkers.</p>
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<p>For context, I don't consider a cyclist who rolls a stop when its clear or with a car moving in the same direction as "blowing" as stop sign either.</p>
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<p>I haven't seen any motorists "blowing" stop signs, but rather rolling or speeding from one to the next, including box trucks and filled-to-the brim junkers.</p>
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<p>For context, I don't consider a cyclist who rolls a stop when its clear or with a car moving in the same direction as "blowing" as stop sign either.</p>
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<p></p> I don't know about Dickens sp…tag:thechainlink.org,2019-05-31:2211490:Comment:11233202019-05-31T18:51:56.124ZJeremyhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/JeremySokolec
<p>I don't know about Dickens specifically, but, in other parts of Lincoln Park, I see plenty of drivers not stopping at stop signs, not stopping at crosswalks, blocking crosswalks/sidewalks while parked, or turning right when there are No Turn On Red signs (that is dangerous because the driver is looking to the left for oncoming cars, and not looking to the right to see potential pedestrians who have a walk signal).</p>
<p>I don't know about Dickens specifically, but, in other parts of Lincoln Park, I see plenty of drivers not stopping at stop signs, not stopping at crosswalks, blocking crosswalks/sidewalks while parked, or turning right when there are No Turn On Red signs (that is dangerous because the driver is looking to the left for oncoming cars, and not looking to the right to see potential pedestrians who have a walk signal).</p>