Chicago & Stop Signs: Cars and Capitalism on the Road to Economic, Social and Ecological Decay - The Chainlink2024-03-29T05:55:27Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/chicago-stop-signs-cars-and?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A333476&xg_source=msg_com_forum&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI like the part here where yo…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-31:2211490:Comment:3447202011-05-31T20:43:04.958ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
<p>I like the part here where you pretend that <em>Freedom of X (insert just about anything here)</em> just a matter of personal choice, like choosing a hairstyle, conveniently ignoring the literally incalculable public expenditure that makes it possible.</p>
<p>I also like the part where you boldly become literally the only person in the entire United States to detect hostility to <em>Freedom of X (insert just about anything here)</em>.</p>
<p>I like the part here where you pretend that <em>Freedom of X (insert just about anything here)</em> just a matter of personal choice, like choosing a hairstyle, conveniently ignoring the literally incalculable public expenditure that makes it possible.</p>
<p>I also like the part where you boldly become literally the only person in the entire United States to detect hostility to <em>Freedom of X (insert just about anything here)</em>.</p> I like the part here where yo…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-31:2211490:Comment:3448072011-05-31T20:36:08.368ZDr. Doomhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DrDoom
<p>I like the part here where you pretend that driving a car is just a matter of personal choice, like choosing a hairstyle, conveniently ignoring the literally incalculable public expenditure that makes it possible.</p>
<p>I also like the part where you boldly become literally the only person in the entire United States to detect hostility to privately owned transportation.</p>
<p>I like the part here where you pretend that driving a car is just a matter of personal choice, like choosing a hairstyle, conveniently ignoring the literally incalculable public expenditure that makes it possible.</p>
<p>I also like the part where you boldly become literally the only person in the entire United States to detect hostility to privately owned transportation.</p> I foresee a time in my own li…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-31:2211490:Comment:3448732011-05-31T20:27:36.897ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
<p>I foresee a time in my own lifetime when the freedom to pilot a motorized personal vehicle wherever one wishes on all but the most remote of areas will be a thing of the past. Motor vehicles will be controlled by computerized transportation nets and such things as steering wheels and piloting controls will be vestigial if present at all.</p>
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<p>The hostility towards privately-owned transportation is part of it, but I am sure the change-over will be done in the name of "safety"…</p>
<p>I foresee a time in my own lifetime when the freedom to pilot a motorized personal vehicle wherever one wishes on all but the most remote of areas will be a thing of the past. Motor vehicles will be controlled by computerized transportation nets and such things as steering wheels and piloting controls will be vestigial if present at all.</p>
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<p>The hostility towards privately-owned transportation is part of it, but I am sure the change-over will be done in the name of "safety" due to the inability of the increasing number of said drivers to operate their vehicles with anything but the barest modicum of an aside to consideration and respect for the lives and safety of other road users. </p>
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<p>When the technology comes to make such a thing possible the ability to just jump in a car (or motorcycle) and drive wherever one wishes without permission from some authority will be a thing of the past. </p>
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<p><br/> <br/> <cite>Jeff Schneider said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/chicago-stop-signs-cars-and?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A344802&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment344802"><div>I don't think it's somehow 'wrong' to own or use a car. I do, too. And, like you, I don't spend much money on it compared to most Americans (though I also understand the societal costs of my driving). But I would still love the freedom that more transportation alternatives would provide. For example, if I am lucky, I may live beyond my ability to drive, and I'd love to still be able to get around.<br/> <br/><br/><blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/chicago-stop-signs-cars-and?page=4&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A344679&x=1#2211490Comment344679"></blockquote>
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</blockquote> I don't find car ownership al…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-31:2211490:Comment:3446792011-05-31T15:23:48.515ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
<p>I don't find car ownership all that onerous or expensive. Perhaps that is because I own a car made in 1994 that has been paid for since before Y2k and has given me 316,000 almost totally trouble-free miles. </p>
<p><br></br>Then again I do all my own maintenance and the little that a mid-90's Camry requires is neither expensive nor very difficult. Other than oil changes, brakes, tires and the 90k timing belt change it needs very little other than checking the fluids. It still has compression…</p>
<p>I don't find car ownership all that onerous or expensive. Perhaps that is because I own a car made in 1994 that has been paid for since before Y2k and has given me 316,000 almost totally trouble-free miles. </p>
<p><br/>Then again I do all my own maintenance and the little that a mid-90's Camry requires is neither expensive nor very difficult. Other than oil changes, brakes, tires and the 90k timing belt change it needs very little other than checking the fluids. It still has compression within factory specs and gets 30MPG in mixed driving.</p>
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<p>The only real costs are fuel and licensing as liability-only insurance is very cheap and hardly even registers on the log book of expenses. There is no such thing as a free lunch. It'd be nice to be car-free but my lifestyle is just NOT compatible with being <em>stuck</em> in one very small geographic vicinity all the time. I've got more of a need to roam the midwest and the continental USA at a rate not consistent with pedaling to get there. I do give people like Todd a nod for limiting themselves to only having a bicycle for personal transportation It's just not something I want to do with my own life. Life is too short to be stuck in an anthill like Chicago all the time. I like to live a little larger than that.</p> Old Tom, I was a motorhead wi…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-31:2211490:Comment:3446762011-05-31T15:04:45.846ZTodd Allenhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/ToddAllen
Old Tom, I was a motorhead with two cars, a van and three motorcycles. No one dictated to me that I give them up. But I have and now rely on bicycles for all my personal transportation needs.<br></br><br></br>It was the Chicago bike community that made it possible for me to achieve car freedom. Without their example I would have never realized what I could do without a car. The grass roots effort "Bike Winter" showed me that one can commute year round by bike in the most extreme weather with rather…
Old Tom, I was a motorhead with two cars, a van and three motorcycles. No one dictated to me that I give them up. But I have and now rely on bicycles for all my personal transportation needs.<br/><br/>It was the Chicago bike community that made it possible for me to achieve car freedom. Without their example I would have never realized what I could do without a car. The grass roots effort "Bike Winter" showed me that one can commute year round by bike in the most extreme weather with rather modest preparation. Quirky events such as bike moves where someone offers free beer and pizza and many volunteers show up with their bike trailers to move the entire contents of their household taught me that there is nothing that a typical home owner has that can't be moved by bike.<br/><br/>And that community is filled with the friendliest and most selfless people I know. They don't have any power to force the steering wheel from your hands but can show you how rewarding it can be to let it go.<br/><br/>I think you have misread Yves. Probably because you haven't read him. Bianca and Yves' book isn't an attack on car drivers. It starts out as a tale of their road trip. One they took by bus and some funny tales of woe when arriving in what should be vacation meccas such as south Florida and the difficulties encountered when not driving. They the explore how cars came to such dominance. Yves own interest in the subject came from the observation during his partying days that the places with the best night life tend to be less car dependent. It's awkward to party when you have to drive home.<br/><br/>Come join us for a good time at Jak's tap tonight. I think you'll find something very different from what you are imagining. I like riding my bicycle but…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-29:2211490:Comment:3426392011-05-29T03:44:44.572ZOld Tomhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/TomBrennan282
<p>I like riding my bicycle but I think the bicycle "community" (everything's a fuckin' community) is overrun with self righteous, finger-wagging, puritanical schoolmarms who want to dictate the behavior of others while demanding the freedom to do whatever the Hell they please (note the twisted, longwinded rationales often put forth here for cyclists disobeying traffic laws).</p>
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<p>I think many of these bastards just hate to see people riding around in cars enjoying themselves and the…</p>
<p>I like riding my bicycle but I think the bicycle "community" (everything's a fuckin' community) is overrun with self righteous, finger-wagging, puritanical schoolmarms who want to dictate the behavior of others while demanding the freedom to do whatever the Hell they please (note the twisted, longwinded rationales often put forth here for cyclists disobeying traffic laws).</p>
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<p>I think many of these bastards just hate to see people riding around in cars enjoying themselves and the freedom to go places cars give them. How dare the masses enjoy the fruits of their labor without first consulting Yves, a Cotton Mather on a Trek.</p> Come meet Yves Engler and Bia…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-27:2211490:Comment:3421542011-05-27T03:07:22.391ZTodd Allenhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/ToddAllen
Come meet Yves Engler and Bianca Mugyenyi, authors of "Stop Signs: Cars and Capitalism on the Road to Economic, Social and Ecological Decay" at either of these events.<br></br><br></br>Tuesday May 31, 6-10pm<br></br>Biking and Politics Podcast<br></br>Jaks Tap (The Green Room)<br></br>901 W Jackson Boulevard<br></br><br></br>Wednesday, June 1, 6 pm<br></br>The Open Books Store<br></br>213 W. Institute Pl.<br></br><br></br><br></br>In their humorous and enlightening book, Stop Signs, Canada-based authors Mugyenyi and Engler use a bus trip…
Come meet Yves Engler and Bianca Mugyenyi, authors of "Stop Signs: Cars and Capitalism on the Road to Economic, Social and Ecological Decay" at either of these events.<br/><br/>Tuesday May 31, 6-10pm<br/>Biking and Politics Podcast<br/>Jaks Tap (The Green Room)<br/>901 W Jackson Boulevard<br/><br/>Wednesday, June 1, 6 pm<br/>The Open Books Store<br/>213 W. Institute Pl.<br/><br/><br/>In their humorous and enlightening book, Stop Signs, Canada-based authors Mugyenyi and Engler use a bus trip across the USA as a starting point for looking critically at the effects of cars on our environment and us.<br/><br/>Stop Signs is disturbingly informative, yet humorous and surprising. "An anti-car, road-trip story, Stop Signs is a unique must-read for all those who wish to escape the clutches of auto domination."<br/><br/><br/>On Tuesday the Biking and Politics Podcast will feature an interview with Stop Signs authors, Yves Engler and Bianca Mugyenyi, followed by a round table discussion on automobile culture and how local advocacy can serve as a counter measure.<br/><br/>John Lankford, Dave Glowacz and Harry Wray will host. John Lankford is the executive director of Walk Bike Transit PAC. Harry Wray is Professor of Political Science at DePaul University in Chicago and author of Pedal Power: the quiet rise of the bicycle in American public life. Dave Glowacz reports on Chicago government for newspapers, radio stations, and the on-line magazine Inside Chicago Government (chigov.com) and authored Urban Bikers’ Tricks & Tips.<br/><br/>The Biking and Politics Podcast is a forum for discussion of how cycling can pave the way to a healthier more sustainable future, and explore what we can all do to become more engaged in the political process to create healthier communities. This month we follow the authors of Stop Signs on an epic car free road trip through America and examine the challenges and opportunities faced in reversing the trends of auto centric urban planning run amok.<br/><br/>On Wednesday, the authors will give a multi-media presentation and do a book signing at The Open Books Store.<br/><br/>Learn more about Stop Signs at (<a href="http://stopsigns.fairtrademedia.com" target="_blank">http://stopsigns.fairtrademedia.com</a>)<br/><br/> /\/\/\ What he said! /\/\/\tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-12:2211490:Comment:3350972011-05-12T13:28:59.129ZFar'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63https://thechainlink.org/profile/JamesBlackHeron
/\/\/\ What he said! /\/\/\
/\/\/\ What he said! /\/\/\ Who decides what is a benefit…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-12:2211490:Comment:3353732011-05-12T13:01:03.285ZDoug Hayneshttps://thechainlink.org/profile/DougHaynes
<p>Who decides what is a benefit and what is not? </p>
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<p>Who are <em>you</em> to make the determination that cars do more harm than good or bikes do more good than harm?</p>
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<p>Did you read and comprehend anything that I said in my long post?</p>
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<p>Right and wrong are nothing more than simple opinions. Some are widely accepted and reinforced and enforced by society as a whole but even in many of those cases there is still not consensus; that whole 'abortion thing'…</p>
<p>Who decides what is a benefit and what is not? </p>
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<p>Who are <em>you</em> to make the determination that cars do more harm than good or bikes do more good than harm?</p>
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<p>Did you read and comprehend anything that I said in my long post?</p>
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<p>Right and wrong are nothing more than simple opinions. Some are widely accepted and reinforced and enforced by society as a whole but even in many of those cases there is still not consensus; that whole 'abortion thing' seems to remain a pretty hot topic even though we, as a society, made 'rules' about it. Just because you and a whole bunch of people you know think a certain action or lifestyle is 'the right thing to do' that does not make it the prevailing attitude let alone a fact. When you preach social responsibility you are inflicting your value system on others and, if they believe other wise, making a very strong judgment against their way of life. If you can somehow explain to me how your statement that using a car less is socially responsible (morally right) does not translate into using a care more is socially irresponsible (morally wrong) please enlighten me.</p>
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<p>Now, personally I believe in trying to drive as little as I can and make life choices that reinforce that. I consider it to be the 'right' choice <strong><em>for me</em></strong> but do not expect it to be the 'right' choice for everyone. I guess if I really wanted to I could take all kinds of moral high ground because of my choice. I could smuggly blather on about it being all our responsibility to save the world, how I am fighting the good fight against evil big oil, how I am doing right by 'the kids' and how I am just so fucking socially responsible (morally right) that it makes my genitals appear larger than they may actually be, but I don't, for two important reasons. </p>
<p>One, for me to say that is to imply that people who do not make my life choices and choose to drive are shirking their responsibility to save the earth, in bed with evil old big oil, screwing over the 'the kids' and so horribly socially irresponsible that their genitals appear shriveled as if they took a cold swim. </p>
<p>Two, no matter how perfect a life I try to live or how smug and wonderful I am there are always going to be choices I make that are socially irresponsible and are hypocritical if I am taking the moral high ground with my bicycle riding. Part of why I ride is because I want to decrease oil dependence and help keep our world clean. However, I also choose to eat meat and love me fresh oranges and bananas. Well the raising, processing and transport of beef pretty much blows my ability to take the moral high ground there out of the water... Same goes for oranges and bananas; ever have a delicious Illinois grown orange? Well how the hell do you think it got here still fresh and tasty? Not on a bike I can tell you that much... I mean if I really believe in any of that shit how can I eat beef? or oranges? I could easily not eat these but there goddamn delicious and I want too. I don't care who you are or what you do somewhere in your choices there is something that runs up against the morals of another choice you make.</p>
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<p>I bike because it makes sense practically, not because I feel it is my moral responsibility and I try to get others on bikes for those exact same reasons.</p>
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<p><cite>Glen (FTF) said:</cite></p>
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/chicago-stop-signs-cars-and?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A332675&page=4#2211490Comment335178"><div><p>you can say that by calling it a social responsibility its also a moral issue, yes, but its more then just a moral issue. What is a society for if not the over all benefit of everyone, supposedly. Other wise people wouldn't enter into them in the first place. if thats so, then its accepted that if something does more harm then good to the overall, its prolly not a great idea. there are methods used to decide "right or wrong" other then simple opinions.</p>
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</blockquote> Well in some respects you can…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-05-12:2211490:Comment:3350152011-05-12T04:57:36.902ZShttps://thechainlink.org/profile/s2485df
Well in some respects you can say that morality is just codifying rules and guidelines so that people can function in a society without literally killing each other. So that other methods can distinguish between right or wrong aside from opinion? Whether you derive morality from religion, Kant's categorical imperative, JS Mill's utilitarianism, natural rights of men, or some other ethical philosophy, the heart of it comes down to an opinion.<br></br>
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<cite>Glen (FTF)…</cite>
Well in some respects you can say that morality is just codifying rules and guidelines so that people can function in a society without literally killing each other. So that other methods can distinguish between right or wrong aside from opinion? Whether you derive morality from religion, Kant's categorical imperative, JS Mill's utilitarianism, natural rights of men, or some other ethical philosophy, the heart of it comes down to an opinion.<br/>
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<cite>Glen (FTF) said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/chicago-stop-signs-cars-and?x=1&id=2211490%3ATopic%3A332675&page=4#2211490Comment335178"><div><p>you can say that by calling it a social responsibility its also a moral issue, yes, but its more then just a moral issue. What is a society for if not the over all benefit of everyone, supposedly. Other wise people wouldn't enter into them in the first place. if thats so, then its accepted that if something does more harm then good to the overall, its prolly not a great idea. there are methods used to decide "right or wrong" other then simple opinions.</p>
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