News this AM that Chicago is to consider allowing cyclists 65 and older to ride on sidewalks, as kids 12 and under are allowed to do.

News this AM that Chicago is to consider allowing cyclists 65 and older to ride on sidewalks, as kids 12 and under are allowed to do. A City department on safety and trans to review before it goes to City Council. I don't think it will make it past the review.

Views: 508

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by David Altenburg on January 23, 2015 at 4:01am

Here's the Suntimes story (h/t to Streetsblog Chicago, who could really use our support): 

http://chicago.suntimes.com/chicago-politics/7/71/309221/aldermen-w...

This is truly a terrible idea. We need to make the streets safer for seniors, not paper over the danger by allowing them on the sidewalk (which is unlikely to be any safer, anyway). I understand that Alderman Reboyras's ward has lots of wide, fast streets and is lacking in bike infrastructure and appreciate his concern for seniors who bike, but his responsibility is to work on making the streets safer for everyone, and this ordinance would run counter to that.

 

Permalink Reply by Thomas Bruzan on January 23, 2015 at 5:10am

The state of Illinois rules of the road handbook allows riding on the sidewalks. It must be carnage all the way from Cairo to Zion. When an incredibly dangerous position puts me on an empty sidewalk in the city limits I'm supposed to push my bike? 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 23, 2015 at 5:30am

This may be perfectly viable in low density areas. However, in places like the Loop, busy neighborhood business districts with narrow sidewalks, Sheridan Road, etc., it has the potential to be terrible for pedestrians.

Permalink Reply by David Altenburg on January 23, 2015 at 7:33am

Sidewalk riding can be dangerous to cyclists because car drivers are not looking for things moving at bicycle speed there.  See https://onelesscar.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/risks-of-sidewalk-versu...

I personally don't have a problem with you riding on an empty sidewalk to avoid a dangerous street as long as you do so at pedestrian speeds and yield to any pedestrians you encounter, but the proposed ordinance would make biking in Chicago worse for a number of reasons:

1. Drivers are already dangerously ignorant of where bicycles belong. Despite the current law, plenty of Chicago drivers think we should be on the sidewalk or only on streets with bike lanes. This ordinance would muddy the issue further.

2. This ordinance would make it difficult to take steps to make the streets actually safer. Anyone who's ever been at a community meeting about proposed changes to make a street better for cycling has heard someone ask "Why can't they just ride on the sidewalk?". This ordinance would give more rhetorical tools to reactionary drivers who think bikers belong only on park paths. 

3. The senior distinction does not really take into account physical ability and biking experience. I know for a fact there are folks on the Chainlink who are 65+ who can outride my 37yo self. They deserve safe streets to ride on, not just sidewalks. And people who are 25 years old with physical limitations or who are just learning to ride deserve a safe place to ride as well.  Age may be a reasonable proxy for physical ability in a lot of situations, but cycling isn't one of them (http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/skin-tight-lyrca-bicycles...)

4. This ordinance would make things worse for pedestrians. They deserve a safe place to travel as well. 

Thomas Bruzan said:

The state of Illinois rules of the road handbook allows riding on the sidewalks. It must be carnage all the way from Cairo to Zion. When an incredibly dangerous position puts me on an empty sidewalk in the city limits I'm supposed to push my bike? 

Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on January 23, 2015 at 8:48am

Well said.  The only places in the city where I will ride on sidewalks are extremely busy/hazardous streets in locations where there is little or no ped traffic (like Western). I get there from side streets as close as possible to my destination on the major street, rolling at about walking speed, prepared to stop for any ped if needed.  If it's a busy street with more peds on the sidewalk, I'll walk it from the nearest corner.
 
David Altenburg said:

Sidewalk riding can be dangerous to cyclists because car drivers are not looking for things moving at bicycle speed there.  See https://onelesscar.wordpress.com/2008/06/11/risks-of-sidewalk-versu...

I personally don't have a problem with you riding on an empty sidewalk to avoid a dangerous street as long as you do so at pedestrian speeds and yield to any pedestrians you encounter, but the proposed ordinance would make biking in Chicago worse for a number of reasons:

1. Drivers are already dangerously ignorant of where bicycles belong. Despite the current law, plenty of Chicago drivers think we should be on the sidewalk or only on streets with bike lanes. This ordinance would muddy the issue further.

2. This ordinance would make it difficult to take steps to make the streets actually safer. Anyone who's ever been at a community meeting about proposed changes to make a street better for cycling has heard someone ask "Why can't they just ride on the sidewalk?". This ordinance would give more rhetorical tools to reactionary drivers who think bikers belong only on park paths. 

3. The senior distinction does not really take into account physical ability and biking experience. I know for a fact there are folks on the Chainlink who are 65+ who can outride my 37yo self. They deserve safe streets to ride on, not just sidewalks. And people who are 25 years old with physical limitations or who are just learning to ride deserve a safe place to ride as well.  Age may be a reasonable proxy for physical ability in a lot of situations, but cycling isn't one of them (http://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com.au/news/skin-tight-lyrca-bicycles...)

4. This ordinance would make things worse for pedestrians. They deserve a safe place to travel as well. 

Permalink Reply by Thomas Bruzan on January 23, 2015 at 10:14am

Seems to me a sidewalk speed limit would make more sense than forcing an eighty year old onto the street.

Permalink Reply by V W on January 23, 2015 at 10:41am
Personally there's too many laws. Even if biking on the sidewalk were legal, it's still illegal to run someone over on your bike. We don't need a sidewalk ban. Just use common sense and ride slow and if you hit someone be prepared to take responsibility.
Permalink Reply by Thomas Bruzan on January 23, 2015 at 11:16am


Exactly!
V W said:

Personally there's too many laws. Even if biking on the sidewalk were legal, it's still illegal to run someone over on your bike. We don't need a sidewalk ban. Just use common sense and ride slow and if you hit someone be prepared to take responsibility.
Permalink Reply by David Barish on January 23, 2015 at 11:43am

I do not like the idea of allowing those over 65 to ride on the sidewalk.  I agree with Anne's comments.  I understand that a cyclist will on rare occasions be on a sidewalk. This should be an exception for a short period where the cyclist is hyper aware of those around him/her and where the cyclist, knowing that he/she is an interloper is yielding to everybody. Bikes belong on roads.  If a bike is on a sidewalk it needs it's rider needs to perceive him/herself as a wheeled pedestrian and needs to proceed accordingly.

If you take this comment you have no need for bike lanes-

Personally there's too many laws. Even if biking on the sidewalk were legal, it's still illegal to run someone over on your bike. We don't need a sidewalk ban. Just use common sense and ride slow and if you hit someone be prepared to take responsibility.

There would be no need for the lane. Motor vehicle drivers would just need to take responsibility and  be careful. It's already illegal to run into a bicycle.  I don't think that would a popular  position on this forum. 

The LFP is an example of a place where bikes and pedestrians are in a dangerous conflict. There are threads here were the efficacy of separating bikes and  peds is discussed. If there was ample space and money that would be a great idea. reality and money complicate that wish. At least all have an expectation that there is bike traffic. There is no such expectation on a sidewalk

Permalink Reply by V W on January 23, 2015 at 11:49am
Part of what I love about biking is that it isn't regulated to death. And the laws we do have aren't enforced on bikers that much. I think bikers should stop at stop signs... And technically they're legally obligated to. But if you ticketed every biker that rolled through one, the world would be a much less friendly place to bike. Biking needs to be incentivized and welcomed. Not regulated to death. There isn't one universal right way to bike. Biking to me means freedom and independence. The law should reflect that.
Permalink Reply by Tom A.K. on January 25, 2015 at 7:10am
On the rare occasion when I do see a senior citizen using their 3 or 2 wheeler to go get some groceries, I smile and wave and make way for them on the sidewalk. Alderman Reboyras's ward maybe more suitable for making this law change work there. Some elderly ethnic groups cycle more than others. Let's face it. The seniors i've seen riding on the sidewalk going to the store are going 2-5 mph. The problem is with the drivers who don't drive cautiously.

Bob Kastigar made a comment in the Redeye that it should not be allowed. Bob, you may be healthy and vigorous to ride on the street but some seniors are not. I recently asked my old-time neighbor who had just gotten a 3 wheeler from Boulevard Bikes why he's not using his car. He said that "he wanted to keep in shape and rehab after a hospital visit. You know "try to live longer". Bob, really, don't disrespect our seniors if you are supposed to represent them to the mayor. Oh, and Bob, if my friend gets a ticket i'll let him know that you will help him out. Okay !

Sidewalk Seniors, Ride On !
Permalink Reply by Bob Kastigar on January 25, 2015 at 7:17am

That was poorly quoted.  I said I wouldn't support the law, I didn't say that I would oppose the change.



Tom A.K. said:


Bob Kastigar made a comment in the Redeye that it should not be allowed.

RSS

Groups

© 2008-2016   The Chainlink Community, L.L.C.   Powered by

Disclaimer  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service