Are protected bike lanes going in the right places? - The Chainlink2024-03-28T13:21:33Zhttps://thechainlink.org/forum/topics/are-protected-bike-lanes-going-in-the-right-places?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A458995&x=1&feed=yes&xn_auth=noI like that reponse Justin. I…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-30:2211490:Comment:4609292011-09-30T17:47:19.914ZKevin Mulckyhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/KevinMulcky
<p>I like that reponse Justin. I see what you're saying. Maybe the solution isn't always a protected bike lane? I think the Ogden/MKE/Chicago intersection could be improved with a few different solutions.</p>
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<p>I was thinking more like Milwaukee has twice the bike traffic and auto traffic as Elston, both increase the likelihood of a collision and the necessity for some sort of intervention. </p>
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<p>I think if Elston is being established under the theory that it'll be a bike…</p>
<p>I like that reponse Justin. I see what you're saying. Maybe the solution isn't always a protected bike lane? I think the Ogden/MKE/Chicago intersection could be improved with a few different solutions.</p>
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<p>I was thinking more like Milwaukee has twice the bike traffic and auto traffic as Elston, both increase the likelihood of a collision and the necessity for some sort of intervention. </p>
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<p>I think if Elston is being established under the theory that it'll be a bike highway (wouldn't that be grand!) then we'll need plenty of East/West arteries to tempt riders off Clybourn and Milwaukee and feed onto Elston.</p> Ratio vs. "raw accidents" is…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-30:2211490:Comment:4609202011-09-30T17:35:08.242ZJustin B Newmanhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/JustinBNewman
<p>Ratio vs. "raw accidents" is almost a philosophical question, as demonstrated by this hypothetical:</p>
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<p>Intersection #1 has 1000 riders per day. Each day 2 riders are in an accident.</p>
<p>Intersection #2 has 50 riders per day. Each day 1 rider is in an accident.</p>
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<p>Intersection #1 "injures more cyclists."</p>
<p>Intersection #2 "is more dangerous."</p>
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<p>To really try to assess in this manner, one would also have to determine if the proposed solution…</p>
<p>Ratio vs. "raw accidents" is almost a philosophical question, as demonstrated by this hypothetical:</p>
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<p>Intersection #1 has 1000 riders per day. Each day 2 riders are in an accident.</p>
<p>Intersection #2 has 50 riders per day. Each day 1 rider is in an accident.</p>
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<p>Intersection #1 "injures more cyclists."</p>
<p>Intersection #2 "is more dangerous."</p>
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<p>To really try to assess in this manner, one would also have to determine if the proposed solution would reduce the number of accidents more in one location than another. Perhaps the accidents at intersection #2 will be solved through fixing the four foot deep pothole in the bicycle lane!</p>
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<p>-jbn</p> Why would we need to look at…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-30:2211490:Comment:4607622011-09-30T17:20:12.561ZKevin Mulckyhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/KevinMulcky
Why would we need to look at a ratio? Protected bike lane have a static cost per foot so they should be installed wherever they will do the most good.<br></br>
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<cite>Ryan said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/are-protected-bike-lanes-going-in-the-right-places?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A460759&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment460759"><div><p> </p>
<p>The other thing is that instead of looking at a map of accidents, you'd need to think about the…</p>
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Why would we need to look at a ratio? Protected bike lane have a static cost per foot so they should be installed wherever they will do the most good.<br/>
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<cite>Ryan said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/are-protected-bike-lanes-going-in-the-right-places?commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A460759&xg_source=msg_com_forum#2211490Comment460759"><div><p> </p>
<p>The other thing is that instead of looking at a map of accidents, you'd need to think about the ratio of accidents per cyclist. The Milwaukee corridor has more accidents mostly because there are way more cyclists on Milwaukee. I don't think it's more dangerous than Elston.</p>
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</blockquote> Kinzie happened because you'v…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-30:2211490:Comment:4607592011-09-30T17:15:50.715ZRyanhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Ryan80
<p>Kinzie happened because you've got two major bike corridors (Milwaukee and Elston) feeding into a narrow and difficult spot just before downtown. Kinzie is a way to convince people who might be comfortable riding on Milwaukee that they really can ride their bikes to work downtown. And while there happens to be a Sun-Times columnist who used Kinzie, there just weren't that many cars on it, so the audience for his complaints is limited. You can put a couple blocks of protected space on…</p>
<p>Kinzie happened because you've got two major bike corridors (Milwaukee and Elston) feeding into a narrow and difficult spot just before downtown. Kinzie is a way to convince people who might be comfortable riding on Milwaukee that they really can ride their bikes to work downtown. And while there happens to be a Sun-Times columnist who used Kinzie, there just weren't that many cars on it, so the audience for his complaints is limited. You can put a couple blocks of protected space on Kinzie and make a lot of people a lot more likely to ride on Milwaukee and on Elston. If you were going to put a protected lane on Milwaukee, which 2 blocks would matter that much? It's not realistic to think the city is going to roll out a 6-mile protected lane down the whole length of Milwaukee as it's first foray into separate lanes. In that way, I think Kinzie is a really good choice.</p>
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<p>The other thing is that instead of looking at a map of accidents, you'd need to think about the ratio of accidents per cyclist. The Milwaukee corridor has more accidents mostly because there are way more cyclists on Milwaukee. I don't think it's more dangerous than Elston.</p> Kelvin, Milwaukee/Ogden/Chica…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-29:2211490:Comment:4601862011-09-29T05:43:10.657ZSteven Vancehttps://thechainlink.org/profile/stevevance
<p>Kelvin, Milwaukee/Ogden/Chicago is the intersection along Milwaukee Avenue with the highest number of bicycle crashes. <a href="http://www.stevencanplan.com/initial-intersection-crash-analysis-for-milwaukee-avenue/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">I created this table and map to show them</a>, using data from 2007-2009.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stevencanplan.com/initial-intersection-crash-analysis-for-milwaukee-avenue/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><img class="align-full" src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/5648849102_a5e040e1b5.jpg?width=500" width="500"></img></a></p>
<p>The blue rings on…</p>
<p>Kelvin, Milwaukee/Ogden/Chicago is the intersection along Milwaukee Avenue with the highest number of bicycle crashes. <a target="_blank" href="http://www.stevencanplan.com/initial-intersection-crash-analysis-for-milwaukee-avenue/" rel="nofollow">I created this table and map to show them</a>, using data from 2007-2009.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stevencanplan.com/initial-intersection-crash-analysis-for-milwaukee-avenue/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5030/5648849102_a5e040e1b5.jpg?width=500" width="500" class="align-full"/></a></p>
<p>The blue rings on the map are called, in GIS parlance, "buffers" and are circles used to select things (in this case, bike crashes) within a certain distance of the circle center. In this map I used 50 feet radius buffers (100 feet diameter). While this distance encompasses the intersection from center to all four curbs, it doesn't encompass the crashes that happened just outside the buffer that were still most likely influenced by the intersection (like drivers' turning movements).</p>
<p>I am working on a project with three friends to create a better map and "crash browser". I mentioned it in the last story on <a href="http://gridchicago.com/2011/grid-bits-englewood-railroad-yard-metra-asks-passengers-to-watch-conductors/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">Grid Chicago in this post</a>. For this project, we are using 200 feet radius (400 feet diameter) buffers to ensure we encompass the entire intersection and the area in which it still has an effect. This also grabs the bike lane "pinch points", places where a bike lane doesn't start until 100-200 feet beyond the intersection. </p>
<p>I am also concerned with the strategy and approach CDOT is using to choose locations. It's not transparent; <a href="http://gridchicago.com/2011/highlights-from-mbac-and-room-for-improvement/" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">at MBAC, CDOT said</a> they were choosing locations "without controversy and that could be implemented quickly".</p> The word is that Elston and 1…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-29:2211490:Comment:4599582011-09-29T02:45:52.005ZAnne Althttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Anne91
The word is that Elston and 18th St. lanes will be happening in the next month.<br></br>
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<cite>Rhea Butcher said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/are-protected-bike-lanes-going-in-the-right-places#2211490Comment459741"><div>But what about the proposed lanes in the original post? I for one am happy that Elston is getting a makeover in any way. I began riding Elston on my way home after recently moving and while I prefer it to Milwaukee for myriad reasons, it…</div>
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The word is that Elston and 18th St. lanes will be happening in the next month.<br/>
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<cite>Rhea Butcher said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/are-protected-bike-lanes-going-in-the-right-places#2211490Comment459741"><div>But what about the proposed lanes in the original post? I for one am happy that Elston is getting a makeover in any way. I began riding Elston on my way home after recently moving and while I prefer it to Milwaukee for myriad reasons, it has major drawbacks. I am hoping that when the dedicated lane goes in, cars will slow down a bit and some potholes will be filled. <---Wishful thinking.</div>
</blockquote> I believe the reason they are…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-29:2211490:Comment:4599542011-09-29T01:10:31.855ZBilly Poorehttps://thechainlink.org/profile/BillyPoore
I believe the reason they are putting in the new buffered bike lanes in at low residential and business areas are for a test for the future to put them in much more trafficked areas. Not to mention budget. The Kinzie lane and the other new lanes are just the first step to becoming a much more bicycle friendly city. I feel everyone should use "311" much more often. Reporting things, whether they have happened or not, definitely gives the city a better direction to future projects.
I believe the reason they are putting in the new buffered bike lanes in at low residential and business areas are for a test for the future to put them in much more trafficked areas. Not to mention budget. The Kinzie lane and the other new lanes are just the first step to becoming a much more bicycle friendly city. I feel everyone should use "311" much more often. Reporting things, whether they have happened or not, definitely gives the city a better direction to future projects. But what about the proposed l…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-28:2211490:Comment:4597412011-09-28T17:24:12.947ZRhea Butcherhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/RheaButcher
But what about the proposed lanes in the original post? I for one am happy that Elston is getting a makeover in any way. I began riding Elston on my way home after recently moving and while I prefer it to Milwaukee for myriad reasons, it has major drawbacks. I am hoping that when the dedicated lane goes in, cars will slow down a bit and some potholes will be filled. <---Wishful thinking.
But what about the proposed lanes in the original post? I for one am happy that Elston is getting a makeover in any way. I began riding Elston on my way home after recently moving and while I prefer it to Milwaukee for myriad reasons, it has major drawbacks. I am hoping that when the dedicated lane goes in, cars will slow down a bit and some potholes will be filled. <---Wishful thinking. I've also noticed some improv…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-28:2211490:Comment:4597952011-09-28T14:14:43.666ZAnne Althttps://thechainlink.org/profile/Anne91
I've also noticed some improvement at this intersection. I agree that it could still be increased by a few seconds to allow for more than 1 or 2 bikes to get through in each light cycle.<br></br>
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<cite>ad said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/are-protected-bike-lanes-going-in-the-right-places?page=1&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A458995&x=1#2211490Comment458995"><div>Not saying the timing of the left turn light from Milwaukee onto Kinzie couldn't be…</div>
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I've also noticed some improvement at this intersection. I agree that it could still be increased by a few seconds to allow for more than 1 or 2 bikes to get through in each light cycle.<br/>
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<cite>ad said:</cite><br />
<blockquote cite="http://www.thechainlink.org/forum/topics/are-protected-bike-lanes-going-in-the-right-places?page=1&commentId=2211490%3AComment%3A458995&x=1#2211490Comment458995"><div>Not saying the timing of the left turn light from Milwaukee onto Kinzie couldn't be improved more, but they did recently adjust the timing of the lights a month or two ago to make the green longer than it was when the cycle track was first installed. It use to be ridiculously short. May not be perfect, but I think it shows they are at least thinking these things out even after the protected lanes are built. <br/><br/><cite>ChristopherMCA said:</cite><blockquote><div>I agree that lights timing needs to be changed. Even cars don't have much time to cross<br/><br/><cite>Ash L. said:</cite><blockquote><div>The lighted intersection at DesPlaines/Milwaukee/Kinzie needs serious work. As is the left turn light for cars and cyclists from SB Milwaukee onto the cycle track leaves enough time for about two bicycles to safely pass. It needs to go from approx. 8-10 seconds to 20 to meet demand and prevent cyclists from trying to shoot the gap when the light is green for SB Milwaukee to continue south on Des Plaines. The signage also needs to be made more clear that a green light means that traffic will be come north from Des Plaines as well. The first couple of times I rode there I didn't realize the light was also for that side of the intersection and the hill makes it difficult to see if cars are coming before you're already too far into your left turn to stop.</div>
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</blockquote> Not saying the timing of the…tag:thechainlink.org,2011-09-26:2211490:Comment:4589952011-09-26T15:19:23.300Zadhttps://thechainlink.org/profile/AdrianRohrer
Not saying the timing of the left turn light from Milwaukee onto Kinzie couldn't be improved more, but they did recently adjust the timing of the lights a month or two ago to make the green longer than it was when the cycle track was first installed. It use to be ridiculously short. May not be perfect, but I think it shows they are at least thinking these things out even after the protected lanes are built. <br></br><br></br><cite>ChristopherMCA said:</cite>
<blockquote><div>I agree that…</div>
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Not saying the timing of the left turn light from Milwaukee onto Kinzie couldn't be improved more, but they did recently adjust the timing of the lights a month or two ago to make the green longer than it was when the cycle track was first installed. It use to be ridiculously short. May not be perfect, but I think it shows they are at least thinking these things out even after the protected lanes are built. <br/><br/><cite>ChristopherMCA said:</cite>
<blockquote><div>I agree that lights timing needs to be changed. Even cars don't have much time to cross<br/><br/><cite>Ash L. said:</cite><blockquote><div>The lighted intersection at DesPlaines/Milwaukee/Kinzie needs serious work. As is the left turn light for cars and cyclists from SB Milwaukee onto the cycle track leaves enough time for about two bicycles to safely pass. It needs to go from approx. 8-10 seconds to 20 to meet demand and prevent cyclists from trying to shoot the gap when the light is green for SB Milwaukee to continue south on Des Plaines. The signage also needs to be made more clear that a green light means that traffic will be come north from Des Plaines as well. The first couple of times I rode there I didn't realize the light was also for that side of the intersection and the hill makes it difficult to see if cars are coming before you're already too far into your left turn to stop.</div>
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