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I am shaking with sadness and anger and heartbreak for this child's family.

Trib article here.

 

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I'm saying that drivers break many of those laws just as frequently as cyclists.  I can sit in my living room and watch 80% of the cars go through the stop sign on my street without stopping.  Some make it down to 5mph, some closer to 10mph at best.  Horns tend to get used if someone actually stops completely.  

Are all of these people deliberately ignoring the law?  Or are they just so terribly unaware of their surroundings that they shouldn't be driving in the first place?

Also, why should we ignore the speeding part?  Velocity is the single most predictive factor in how likely a crash is to kill someone.  It determines how much energy the car has.  Speeding most certainly is an issue.  It means less time to react to anything unexpected and if a crash happens, it means someone is more likely to die.


Richard Jarrow said:

All true.  Cars do stupid things on the road, which if you've read what I've posted I'm not trying to absolve cars of any wrong doing..   But what you're saying is in no way justification for bicyclists to deliberately ignore traffic lights and such.   Speed traps don't really apply to bikes anyway, so you're basically exempt from those laws - but red lights, stop signs, one way streets, right of way, etc.  Yes, you're subject to those just like cars are.

I'm sorry but that's where you're very much mistaken.   Now, December 5th in Chicago isn't the best time for this, but on a nicer summer day when ALL the cyclists are out, stand at a busy intersection downtown or even someplace up on Milwaukee or Elston.   Count the number of cars that pass through the intersection and the number of cars that blatantly jump the red light cuz there's enough of a gap in traffic to allow them to rabbit through.  Now do the same for bicycles.  Bicycles will have a far far higher percentage of instances of actually blowing the light, and even less of coming to a complete stop first.

I'd say folks are skirting the law.  But it's still not justification for others to also do so.

As for ignoring speeding laws, I'd say it's bicycles that make out on that one - how many speeding tickets do you think bikes get?  Hardly any I'd suspect.   Drivers of cars at least know they're subject to those laws and don't have much recourse for fighting a speeding ticket.  They just pay the fine, just like any other traffic ticket they get - but with the lack of enforcement of traffic law for bikes, you're just getting away with it more and more - and therein lies part of the problem.

Joel said:

I'm saying that drivers break many of those laws just as frequently as cyclists.  I can sit in my living room and watch 80% of the cars go through the stop sign on my street without stopping.  Some make it down to 5mph, some closer to 10mph at best.  Horns tend to get used if someone actually stops completely.  

Are all of these people deliberately ignoring the law?  Or are they just so terribly unaware of their surroundings that they shouldn't be driving in the first place?

Also, why should we ignore the speeding part?  Velocity is the single most predictive factor in how likely a crash is to kill someone.  It determines how much energy the car has.  Speeding most certainly is an issue.  It means less time to react to anything unexpected and if a crash happens, it means someone is more likely to die.

If there is going to be a debate on this forum, please start another thread to do it in. Healthy debate is good, but I would personally like to see the current discussion started in another thread. This particular thread really isn't the place for it, IMO. 

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