Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Jonathan Quist on August 5, 2014 at 5:12am

Just giving you shit because I can't resist a bad pun.

And liking your reply (realizing after the fact that "++" was vague).

Permalink Reply by Tristan Jackson on August 5, 2014 at 6:10am

David, I'm really impressed by how thoughtful your approach is in letting other riders know you're passing. But OMG I really related here:

"While we are on the subject, if you are on a group ride and a bike or car  is approaching in the other lane and it does not  impact what  you are doing there is no reason to call "car up". If a car is behind and  you are on a big road this is not a big surprise and does not need to be called out unless  you feel it may change the way people should ride or react such as the guy riding double file who you are trying  to wake up. ."

Yes! It drives me crazy when people yell "car up" on a wide road with almost no possibility of the oncoming car effecting any of the riders in the group. 

Permalink Reply by Rich S on August 5, 2014 at 7:10am

I do believe James' comment was designed to provoke a response. It's called trolling and it appears you took the bait. I'd say your awareness might be in need of a tune up except James is very good at trolling. 

That being said if the OP is going to be persnickety and disrespectful then I could care less what he thinks or is going to do since we have all been warned. I'm going to pass in a safe manner and if I say anything while passing then it will be what I think most appropriate in the tone of voice and volume most appropriate. 

I can think of a hundreds of things I'd rather concern myself with than if a person says gobbledegook while they pass in the angriest voice possible. 

John Wilson 6.0 said:

Hm. It sounds as if you have the situational awareness of a half-eaten grape.

James BlackHeron said:

Oh, no! The language police!

If you don't like the word then don't use it. But don't be an idiot and tell others what words they can and can't use. That's culture moving backwards.

Permalink Reply by Tristan Jackson on August 5, 2014 at 7:19am

So I wasn't going to reply to this because it's obviously a massive distraction from the main discussion, but, since it seems to bother so many, I've decided I'll make a few comments on it here. However, I also understand that I'm probably not going to convince anyone who is very decidedly against using the word "retarded" under any circumstance. So my goal here is just to clarify my own purpose in using the word and to explain why I'm not going to apologize for it.

So when I said "...you would have to be retarded to try passing me on the right," I meant you would have to be stupid (and/or any number of other synonyms including unintelligent, ignorant, dense, dumb, etc.) to do it. Merriam Webster's definition of retarded is consistent, as far as I'm concerned, with my intended meaning: [adjective] "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress." MW has a separate entry for retard: [noun] "often offensive: a retarded person; also: a person held to resemble a retarded person in behavior." Note MW mentions that "retard," used as a noun, is "often offensive", but in defining "retarded", used as an adjective, it does not mention it's possibly offensive nature. And, not that it is a solace to anyone here offended, I used the word as an adjective, not a noun.

Regardless the semantics, I wouldn't of apologized even if I had used it another way. Michelle wrote, "the minute you use ablelist, sexist, racist or homophobic (or any other) SLUR... I will fucking tell you what's up." Well, in my mind, one thing there isn't like the other: ableist, meaning someone who sees being abled or non-disabled as being superior to being disabled. Racism, sexism, and homophobia are absolutely evil. And it is absurd to believe the superiority of a certain race, sex, or sexual preference. But I don't think you can reasonably assert that being abled isn't superior to being disabled. I am NOT suggesting that this means it's alright to treat retarded people poorly. That would obviously be repugnant. But I am suggesting that one word ain't like the other.

Regardless the morality, I don't think simply changing the signifier, the actual sound/word, from "retarded" to "mentally disabled", necessarily changes what is signified. The meaning of a word is fluid and not easily policed. I'm already hearing kids on Xbox Live using "mentally disabled" as a pejorative. So just from a practical perspective, I don't think you're necessarilly helping your cause. 

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. I'm not politically correct, and I don't want to be. I don't want to live in a society where people are cautious about every word they use because they're afraid someone might get offended. I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. I'm afraid of what might be lost in a society where people limit what they say because someone might find it offensive.

Ok I'll stop there...

Michelle Milham said:

No. 

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. 

Say all the swear words and cuss words you like. 

The minute you use an abelist, sexist, racist or homophobic (or any other) SLUR? 

I will fucking tell you what's up. 

Don't be an asshole.

James BlackHeron said:

Oh, no! The language police!

If you don't like the word then don't use it. But don't be an idiot and tell others what words they can and can't use. That's culture moving backwards.

Permalink Reply by Jim Reho on August 5, 2014 at 7:20am

I'll have to think about this just in case I ever pass somebody.

Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on August 5, 2014 at 7:25am

It is an extremely cruel word and has been used in extremely cruel ways. 

Stop fucking using it. 

If you don't, I can honestly say I hope someone slugs you for using it. 

STOP. using it. It doesn't make you cool or rebellious or not "politically correct" 

It makes you mean. And it means that you refuse to take other peoples' hurt into consideration. 

STOP. 

I'm not joking. 

Just. STOP. 

Tristan Jackson said:

So I wasn't going to reply to this because it's obviously a massive distraction from the main discussion, but, since it seems to bother so many, I've decided I'll make a few comments on it here. However, I also understand that I'm probably not going to convince anyone who is very decidedly against using the word "retarded" under any circumstance. So my goal here is just to clarify my own purpose in using the word and to explain why I'm not going to apologize for it.

So when I said "...you would have to be retarded to try passing me on the right," I meant you would have to be stupid (and/or any number of other synonyms including unintelligent, ignorant, dense, dumb, etc.) to do it. Merriam Webster's definition of retarded is consistent, as far as I'm concerned, with my intended meaning: [adjective] "slow or limited in intellectual or emotional development or academic progress." MW has a separate entry for retard: [noun] "often offensive: a retarded person; also: a person held to resemble a retarded person in behavior." Note MW mentions that "retard," used as a noun, is "often offensive", but in defining "retarded", used as an adjective, it does not mention it's possibly offensive nature. And, not that it is a solace to anyone here offended, I used the word as an adjective, not a noun.

Regardless the semantics, I wouldn't of apologized even if I had used it another way. Michelle wrote, "the minute you use ablelist, sexist, racist or homophobic (or any other) SLUR... I will fucking tell you what's up." Well, in my mind, one thing there isn't like the other: ableist, meaning someone who sees being abled or non-disabled as being superior to being disabled. Racism, sexism, and homophobia are absolutely evil. And it is absurd to believe the superiority of a certain race, sex, or sexual preference. But I don't think you can reasonably assert that being abled isn't superior to being disabled. I am NOT suggesting that this means it's alright to treat retarded people poorly. That would obviously be repugnant. But I am suggesting that one word ain't like the other.

Regardless the morality, I don't think simply changing the signifier, the actual sound/word, from "retarded" to "mentally disabled", necessarily changes what is signified. The meaning of a word is fluid and not easily policed. I'm already hearing kids on Xbox Live using "mentally disabled" as a pejorative. So just from a practical perspective, I don't think you're necessarilly helping your cause. 

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. I'm not politically correct, and I don't want to be. I don't want to live in a society where people are cautious about every word they use because they're afraid someone might get offended. I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. I'm afraid of what might be lost in a society where people limit what they say because someone might find it offensive.

Ok I'll stop there...

Michelle Milham said:

No. 

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. 

Say all the swear words and cuss words you like. 

The minute you use an abelist, sexist, racist or homophobic (or any other) SLUR? 

I will fucking tell you what's up. 

Don't be an asshole.

James BlackHeron said:

Oh, no! The language police!

If you don't like the word then don't use it. But don't be an idiot and tell others what words they can and can't use. That's culture moving backwards.

Permalink Reply by Rich S on August 5, 2014 at 7:40am

Kindness. Generosity. Compassion. Caring. There are plenty of people that value these qualities above intellectual capacity in a human being. And an intellectually challenged individual is one who could easily have these qualities in greater abundance than another with greater IQ. Therefore making the intellectually challenged individual superior. Or at least more pleasant to spend time with since they won't be tripping all over their superiority and what not. 

Hodor! 

Tristan Jackson said:

Blah blah blah

But I don't think you can reasonably assert that being abled isn't superior to being disabled. 

Blah blah blah

Permalink Reply by David Altenburg on August 5, 2014 at 7:45am

Tristan Jackson said:

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. ... I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. 

Didn't you start this thread in order to request that people talk more politely to each other?

Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on August 5, 2014 at 7:47am

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA. 

No. He started it so that people can be more polite to HIM. 

HE doesn't have to think about the way he speaks to other people because he is PASSIONATE about using cruel slurs.

David Altenburg said:

Tristan Jackson said:

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. ... I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. 

Didn't you start this thread in order to request that people talk more politely to each other?

Permalink Reply by Tristan Jackson on August 5, 2014 at 8:24am

I started it because I think saying good morning is superior than saying on your left in many instances. I also think, in general, being kind to people, including retarded people, is superior to being mean. I don't see using the word retarded to mean stupid as being mean. Difference of opinion?


David Altenburg said:

Tristan Jackson said:

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. ... I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. 

Didn't you start this thread in order to request that people talk more politely to each other?

Permalink Reply by Tristan Jackson on August 5, 2014 at 8:25am

Exactly! Call outs should only be used when they impart meaningful information.


Jeff Schneider said:

I even heard people doing this on the Boulevard & Lakefront Tour one time.  It was annoying.  My thought was:  You are in a city.  There are always cars up, back, everywhere.  Just pay attention to what you are doing.

Tristan Jackson said:

David, I'm really impressed by how thoughtful your approach is in letting other riders know you're passing. But OMG I really related here:

"While we are on the subject, if you are on a group ride and a bike or car  is approaching in the other lane and it does not  impact what  you are doing there is no reason to call "car up". If a car is behind and  you are on a big road this is not a big surprise and does not need to be called out unless  you feel it may change the way people should ride or react such as the guy riding double file who you are trying  to wake up. ."

Yes! It drives me crazy when people yell "car up" on a wide road with almost no possibility of the oncoming car effecting any of the riders in the group. 

Permalink Reply by Michelle Milham on August 5, 2014 at 8:26am

No, not really. 

You're literally an enourmous douche. That's pretty much the only thing. 

Not using that word and other slurs will do NOTHING to injure you. It is literally a consequence-free way to be a better person. 

But no, you have to be "edgy" right? 

Hint: In this case "edgy" is code for just mean.

Tristan Jackson said:

I started it because I think saying good morning is superior than saying on your left in many instances. I also think, in general, being kind to people, including retarded people, is superior to being mean. I don't see using the word retarded to mean stupid as being mean. Difference of opinion?


David Altenburg said:

Tristan Jackson said:

But, regardless everything else, I'm not going to apologize because I refuse to be bullied into speaking a certain way. ... I like when people speaking frankly, honestly, and passionately. 

Didn't you start this thread in order to request that people talk more politely to each other?

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