The Chainlink

Running Red Lights & Pedestrian Cross Walks

I am a casual commuter bicyclist. I ride to work down Milwaukee via my bike or the 56 bus. (Bucktown to West Loop)

One thing I notice during my commutes is that at certain "T" intersections 19 out of 20 bicyclists will not stop at the red light and pass through it. It doesn't matter if there are pedestrians at cross-walks or incoming traffic. Some will not even slow down.

Personally, it drives me crazy. I find it to be completely irresponsible, dangerous and discourteous at these times of day. It wouldn't concern me as much if it was not during rush hour. However, we are talking about people trying to use the crosswalks and cars attempting to drive normally and merge onto busy roads.

Example:  Milwaukee & Wabansia - This intersection has 2 crosswalks across Milwaukee. It has a day care & public library. Foot traffic is high with parents/kids/strollers and commuters. Bicyclists do not stop even if there are people crossing or traffic coming onto Milwaukee. I have seen them swerve around strollers and disregard any safety concerns. Personally I have almost been hit once, saw 2 near collisions with strollers and people held up from crossing because of a stream of unconcerned bicyclists.

Example:  Milwaukee & Noble - This intersection has one highly used crosswalk across Milwaukee. It is by a school with a lot of student pedestrians (with a crossing guard) and a good amount of senior citizens. Again, Bicyclist run this red all of the time even if there are people crossing. Personally, I have seen near collisions with groups of students, 3 seniors and cars making left turns.

If this was a rare occurrence I wouldn't be posting. In fact, this issue alone prompted me to create an account and post at Chainlink.

I want to understand WHY people think this is okay and don't think it is a danger to themselves and others?

Why can't they stop?

Why do they not care about the safety of others?

Why do they not care about the rules of the road?

The mindset is what I'm looking to understand. Right now I just think they are selfish a-holes who value their time/safety/space more than others. On days with near collisions I even get angry to the point of yelling. (I saw an old woman missed by nearly 3 inches. [http://abcnews.go.com/US/bicyclist-us-guilty-vehicular-homicide/sto...])

I want to be proven wrong and have an understanding of why this happens.

Thanks,

KZ

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Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on August 9, 2013 at 9:09am

MFrank, how would you feel if it was a car driver saying that he runs red lights and only cares for his own safety because he is a "safe driver"? Granted, a car can do far worse damage, but the attitude is the same.

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 9, 2013 at 9:31am

Yea I read that article when it happened. But we've already established that following the rules of the road is a giant grey area (tort? I'm no legal expert). And the grey area argument can always be pushed one step further...why risk running stop signs, why risk running red lights at t intersections, etc etc. I'm not the guy that killed 71 year old, I'm not the guy that broke a guys arm on lake shore.

Here's a (somewhat related) thought-provoking article: http://www.freakonomics.com/2010/04/02/life-and-death-in-the-fast-l...  basically says "the lifting of the federal 55 mph speed limit in 1995 was responsible for 12,545 deaths between 1995 and 2005." so why don't we just all drive 55? Just because I drive 65-70 on the highway doesn't mean I'm the guy that causes car accidents.

Why risk it you ask? Some people are willing to take on more risk than others. Some people like to sky dive and others like to knit.

I've live in Wicker Park, and have lived in Humboldt Park/Logan Square over the years. I don't think I ride aggressively, but I do ride assertively. I don't ride particularly fast; My regular pace is slightly faster than the flow of bike traffic. If I feel it is reasonably safe to run a red light, I will. For instance, if I'm at Ogden/Milwaukee and pedestrians are jay-walking, I'll cross with them. If there are no cars, I cross. I would say I ride 12-15 mph, I'm more of a sweat-minimizer than a speed-maximizer in the mornings. I leave for work at 7-7:30 and get home 4:30-5.

Skip Montanaro 12mi said:

Cameron 7.5 mi said:

A bike isn't going to do as much damage as a car, but it's still going to really hurt.

Sometimes it's going to really, really hurt. http://road.cc/content/news/89218-us-cyclist-who-killed-pedestrian-...

MFrank, your comments indicate that you believe you've never impacted other people during your commutes. Perhaps that's true. Why risk what the guy in the road.cc article is going through (or the guy he hit)?

Follow-up question... How long is your commute (time and distance)? Do you know things like average and max speeds? How much slower would your trip to work be if you stopped or slowed down for street lights, at least on major thoroughfares? What times of the day do you commute?

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 9, 2013 at 9:43am

I would say that eventually they will get ticketed and worse, if that is how they drive all the time (because the law is more or less enforced in this case). However, I see cabs and drivers run red lights all the time during my morning Milwaukee commute. I don't like it, but what do they care what I like or dislike? I don't get to tell them how to drive.


Adam Herstein (5.5 mi) said:

MFrank, how would you feel if it was a car driver saying that he runs red lights and only cares for his own safety because he is a "safe driver"? Granted, a car can do far worse damage, but the attitude is the same.

Permalink Reply by Tank-Ridin' Ryan on August 9, 2013 at 4:49pm

I never accused you of having a 5th grade intellect.  Anyway, please don't bitch if someone decides to do something that you don't like (such as running you over or worse) since he or she is just learning from MFrank's School of Societal Rules.

MFrank said:

I'm sorry, my '5th grade intellect' doesn't get this. Let me remove the double negative and try to make sense of this:

"so it's ok for others to decide to follow the same rules you do." (That's the logical contrapositive)

yea totally! I'm glad we see things eye to eye!


Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

Oh ok, so it's not ok for others to decide to not follow the same rules you do.  Sounds like you need to go sit on the toilet and lose a few pounds.

MFrank said:

(deleted for brevity)

Permalink Reply by MFrank on August 9, 2013 at 5:39pm

you're right, you didn't accuse me of that and I apologize.

and that's what this whole thread is about...not bitching about the way other people ride. We are talking the same language. Thanks!


Tank-Ridin' Ryan said:

I never accused you of having a 5th grade intellect.  Anyway, please don't bitch if someone decides to do something that you don't like (such as running you over or worse) since he or she is just learning from MFrank's School of Societal Rules.

MFrank said:

(deleted for brevity)

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