The Chainlink

Ashland selected for BRT

The Tribune is reporting that the center running configuration of Ashland has been selected over Western.

 

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/chi-cta-ashland-bus-rapid-transi...

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Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on April 20, 2013 at 2:04pm

I've looked at the various proposals and the center drop off means crossing when traffic clears or will they have a light every half mile at stops? The bus may end up running faster but it won't do any good if you can't get to it or get across the street after you get off.

Removal of center islands with existing "green space" would leave bikes in the only lane left. A right lane bus only lane means what? riding in the lane to avoid cars or "taking the lane" as a bike where the car lane remains? and will there be a dedicated bike space on the bus or just the 2 rack spots.
h' 1.0 said:

I'm not sure you've taken the time to have a complete understanding of what's being proposed, Mike, but I'm with you on the lack of info in regard to bikes-- will BRT streets have no bicycle related improvements? Is it promised that you can take a bike on the BRT? Will local service be (guaranteed to be) preserved on streets that have BRT? Will local service continue to run at a frequency that's of use to most of us?


Mike Zumwalt said:

(edit time ran out) but according to the CTA site several designs are proposed and even though it says BUS only, traffic will still use it so cars will block buses at lights or for turns and not a mention of a bike lane.

Much like the "protected" bike lanes unless there is a permanent solid barrier between the lane and traffic all it is, is a bunch of paint and symbols.

http://www.transitchicago.com/westernashlandbrt/

Permalink Reply by WalkThroughWater on April 20, 2013 at 5:14pm



h' 1.0 said:

Would be nice if you could converse without being insulting, but I guess we all have our days.

Do you think headways on local bus service on BRT routes would still be workable? I can't imagine they wouldn't be reduced on a route that has BRT. You can wait 15-20 minutes for an Ashland bus as it is (and that's in the daytime.) Increase the headways any more than that and you might as well not have the local service.

Apologies for my rudeness, but anyway, I don’t know about the local buses.  I was told the local service will be retained so the elderly and disabled don’t have to walk as far.  New York has both local and Select Bus Service on First and Second ave. but Cleveland discontinued the local Euclid ave. bus because the ridership shifted to the HealthLine.  My assumption is they will keep the local as is and we will find out what gets cut come the next budget crisis.

Permalink Reply by Alex Z on April 20, 2013 at 5:18pm

At this point, I don't think adding bike lanes on Western or Ashland should be a priority. Damen and California, with some limitations, serve very well as north-south biking thoroughfares, in my experience.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on April 20, 2013 at 6:35pm

You realize California doesn't go through from South to north?

How often do you currently ride it across east Garfield?

I have no need to see Western designated any sort of bike corridor, but there are sections that could use some improvements.

I rarely ride on Damen personally-- it's too far from anywhere I usually need to go.


Alex Z said:

At this point, I don't think adding bike lanes on Western or Ashland should be a priority. Damen and California, with some limitations, serve very well as north-south biking thoroughfares, in my experience.

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on April 20, 2013 at 7:36pm

And Damen doesn't go through either. It stops at Pershing, but only after a totally wretched for bikes bridge over the river and a long dark tunnel under a rail yard in Pilsen. 

h' 1.0 said:

You realize California doesn't go through from South to north?

How often do you currently ride it across east Garfield?

I have no need to see Western designated any sort of bike corridor, but there are sections that could use some improvements.

I rarely ride on Damen personally-- it's too far from anywhere I usually need to go.


Alex Z said:

At this point, I don't think adding bike lanes on Western or Ashland should be a priority. Damen and California, with some limitations, serve very well as north-south biking thoroughfares, in my experience.

Permalink Reply by Mike Zumwalt on April 21, 2013 at 10:47am

California is great from Grand to Montrose on a bike, but then what?

Alex Z said:

At this point, I don't think adding bike lanes on Western or Ashland should be a priority. Damen and California, with some limitations, serve very well as north-south biking thoroughfares, in my experience.

Permalink Reply by Jared on April 21, 2013 at 11:55am

Going north you follow a few side streets through Ravenswood Manor, then get back on California which can take you to the city line and then on to Evanston once it becomes Dodge.

Mike Zumwalt said:

California is great from Grand to Montrose on a bike, but then what?

Alex Z said:

At this point, I don't think adding bike lanes on Western or Ashland should be a priority. Damen and California, with some limitations, serve very well as north-south biking thoroughfares, in my experience.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on April 21, 2013 at 3:52pm

I personally don't see the value in having one or few designated north-south or east-west corridor(s) intended for bicycles. Are there really that many of us that need to make a 10+ mile trip from one end of town to another?

The biggest challenges facing bike commuters in Chicago are the barriers created by rivers, expressways, and railroads that effectively leave us few good choices for getting from one part of town to another (see Tony's post above-- Damen becomes too scary for even experienced commuters at several points, for example.)

Here are my modest desires for Western Ave:

1) A sanctioned off-street (i.e. sidewalk) bike path for the section between Ogden and 18th street, if not an on-street lane.

2) A striped/buffered lane through the industrial/tech college corridor between Blue Island (26th) and the river, and a protected lane across the river.

3) You nord' siderss can worry 'bout your own selves, but there are few options to divert from Western on a north-south trip between Bloomingdale and Diversey or so, so some bit of on-street lane through that section

wouldn't be unwelcome.

Permalink Reply by Alex Z on April 21, 2013 at 9:09pm

I apologize; when I said that California and Damen are good "north-south" bikeways, I just meant "north-south" as opposed to "east-west"; I didn't mean "northside-to-southside."

My point is meant to be that I am okay with the idea of having some streets be bad for bikes, if there are enough good alternatives. For a certain area of the NW side, I think that is the case with respect to Western and Ashland.

Permalink Reply by Jason W on April 22, 2013 at 10:26am

I still think it's a waste of money. Just bring back the Ashland #9 express that they just cancelled and save $160 million dollars. This is why this city/state/country is in such terrible debt.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on April 22, 2013 at 11:56am

I never saw much advantage to the express buses. I know users of the Irving express thought it was useful, but I'd see Western and Ashland express buses bunched along with the non-express buses all the time.  I'd be happy if they just ran non-express buses at the frequency that they're supposed to be run.

Alex Z said:

I apologize; when I said that California and Damen are good "north-south" bikeways, I just meant "north-south" as opposed to "east-west"; I didn't mean "northside-to-southside."

My point is meant to be that I am okay with the idea of having some streets be bad for bikes, if there are enough good alternatives. For a certain area of the NW side, I think that is the case with respect to Western and Ashland.

Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on April 22, 2013 at 12:09pm

These are all great ideas Howard.

I think it is more important to keep an eye on all this as it is now pretty clear that the BRT, at least as it has been conceived for Ashland pretty much rules out using the street on a bicycle. As I've said since the ill-conceived mission creep of the Chicagoland Bicycle Federation into ActiveTrans, there are going to be times when the needs of bikes will conflict with the needs of transit. Here we have a clear example*. I pretty much never ride on Ashland so in this case it is no great loss, but if the same thing were to happen to Western we'd be totally screwed.

* I could be missing something of course, but I don't see any accommodation for riding bikes included in the BRT plans for Ashland.


h' 1.0 said:

I personally don't see the value in having one or few designated north-south or east-west corridor(s) intended for bicycles. Are there really that many of us that need to make a 10+ mile trip from one end of town to another?

The biggest challenges facing bike commuters in Chicago are the barriers created by rivers, expressways, and railroads that effectively leave us few good choices for getting from one part of town to another (see Tony's post above-- Damen becomes too scary for even experienced commuters at several points, for example.)

Here are my modest desires for Western Ave:

1) A sanctioned off-street (i.e. sidewalk) bike path for the section between Ogden and 18th street, if not an on-street lane.

2) A striped/buffered lane through the industrial/tech college corridor between Blue Island (26th) and the river, and a protected lane across the river.

3) You nord' siderss can worry 'bout your own selves, but there are few options to divert from Western on a north-south trip between Bloomingdale and Diversey or so, so some bit of on-street lane through that section

wouldn't be unwelcome.

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