Cyclists of Chicago, please...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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Something about this response has been bothering me and I couldn't figure out what it is but riding this morning I figured it out.
If you are being surprised by people passing you are either not checking your mirror as frequently as you claim, it is poorly aimed or your pace is not much above standing still. If you're going 10MPH from when they would be visible until you get passed should be more than just 5-10 seconds unless they are overtaking you at great speed.
Bill Savage said:I ride slow (10 mph average) and so get passed a lot. When cyclists pass me on the left without warning, I always say "On MY left!" in a "F*&* You" tone of voice. Half the time, this elicits no response; about a quarter of the time I get an apology, and the rest of the time I'm told to perform an autoerotic impossibility. This last response especially comes from cyclists riding fast at night with no lights and dark clothes, so I don't see them in my mirror (which I check every five-ten seconds). This is, as so many of our conversations are, really about just plain old common sense and courtesy. And Amen to Beau Sessions's comment about the general etiquette of the road.
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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on
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Well said. Thank you, Sarah!
Sarah D. said:The point, Peter, is that it's not "unexpected" for *you* when you are passing, it's unexpected for the person in front of you, and thus creates an unneccesarily dangerous situation. Have the common sense - and decency - to announce your approach and to pass on the left. "Hold your line"? Are you serious?! - on Chicago's potholed/glassy/living streets - with Chicago drivers? You've got to be kidding me.
peter moorman said:
Come on y'all...expect the unexpected.
Its a big city ...lots of folks moving about here.
No big deal if riders don't communicate when coming around you... either side ... if your holding your line.
Do you expect a car driver to do the same. : "On yer left biker"
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Permalink Reply by Sarah D. on
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1) Biking and driving are totally different, I think it's disingenuous of you to make that comparison. BUT: 2) A bike sharrow/lane is a single lane, meant for one bicycle. If you need to pass, you come up behind, wait til it's clear, then take the shared car lane to pass outside on the left. Think of it like highway driving if you must - you can't pass on the shoulder, you have to wait till you can change lanes to the left, and go around slower vehicles.
Honestly I don't care about announcing as much as not getting nearly hit numerous times by asswipe cyclists who zoom by on the right of me, usually at intersections where I am trying to merge right to wait anyway (and - surprise! They are usually running through red lights). It's startling and stupid. Just PASS ON THE LEFT.
notoriousDUG said:If you are paying attention you don't get passed unexpectedly.
If you are driving do you expect other motorists to announce it before they pass you?
Sarah D. said:The point, Peter, is that it's not "unexpected" for *you* when you are passing, it's unexpected for the person in front of you, and thus creates an unneccesarily dangerous situation. Have the common sense - and decency - to announce your approach and to pass on the left. "Hold your line"? Are you serious?! - on Chicago's potholed/glassy/living streets - with Chicago drivers? You've got to be kidding me.
peter moorman said:
Come on y'all...expect the unexpected.
Its a big city ...lots of folks moving about here.
No big deal if riders don't communicate when coming around you... either side ... if your holding your line.
Do you expect a car driver to do the same. : "On yer left biker"
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Permalink Reply by Bill Savage on
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Nope--not on Damen today, and if someone is way to my left, I do not say anything, since that's safe. It's the jerks who skim right on my mirror at twice my speed without any warning who get my rudeness.
notoriousDUG said:If I can pass you with a safe margin why should I need to announce it? Are you that unpredictable a rider?
If you're the guy who yelled 'on my left' at me on Damen today you are a complete ass because I was like 3 feet, or more, from you.
Bill Savage said:I ride slow (10 mph average) and so get passed a lot. When cyclists pass me on the left without warning, I always say "On MY left!" in a "F*&* You" tone of voice. Half the time, this elicits no response; about a quarter of the time I get an apology, and the rest of the time I'm told to perform an autoerotic impossibility. This last response especially comes from cyclists riding fast at night with no lights and dark clothes, so I don't see them in my mirror (which I check every five-ten seconds). This is, as so many of our conversations are, really about just plain old common sense and courtesy. And Amen to Beau Sessions's comment about the general etiquette of the road.
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If you are paying attention you don't get passed unexpectedly? WRONG. You can be paying perfectly fine attention and in the few seconds you aren't looking in your rear view mirror a biker turns off a side street and or just joins traffic and passes unexpectedly. Alert does not equal omniscient.
notoriousDUG said:If you are paying attention you don't get passed unexpectedly.
If you are driving do you expect other motorists to announce it before they pass you?
Sarah D. said:The point, Peter, is that it's not "unexpected" for *you* when you are passing, it's unexpected for the person in front of you, and thus creates an unneccesarily dangerous situation. Have the common sense - and decency - to announce your approach and to pass on the left. "Hold your line"? Are you serious?! - on Chicago's potholed/glassy/living streets - with Chicago drivers? You've got to be kidding me.
peter moorman said:
Come on y'all...expect the unexpected.
Its a big city ...lots of folks moving about here.
No big deal if riders don't communicate when coming around you... either side ... if your holding your line.
Do you expect a car driver to do the same. : "On yer left biker"
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And people do indeed overtake at great speed, or come out of driveways or alleys, or join traffic betwen cars. And at night? With no lights? Dressed in black? My mirror is not much use at that point, is it?
notoriousDUG said:Something about this response has been bothering me and I couldn't figure out what it is but riding this morning I figured it out.
If you are being surprised by people passing you are either not checking your mirror as frequently as you claim, it is poorly aimed or your pace is not much above standing still. If you're going 10MPH from when they would be visible until you get passed should be more than just 5-10 seconds unless they are overtaking you at great speed.
Bill Savage said:I ride slow (10 mph average) and so get passed a lot. When cyclists pass me on the left without warning, I always say "On MY left!" in a "F*&* You" tone of voice. Half the time, this elicits no response; about a quarter of the time I get an apology, and the rest of the time I'm told to perform an autoerotic impossibility. This last response especially comes from cyclists riding fast at night with no lights and dark clothes, so I don't see them in my mirror (which I check every five-ten seconds). This is, as so many of our conversations are, really about just plain old common sense and courtesy. And Amen to Beau Sessions's comment about the general etiquette of the road.
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Permalink Reply by David Barish on
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Sarah is right on the money. Sure, we shouldn't be too surprised as we should be checking our mirrors and be at one with the zen of the road. However, we are more aware of doors on the right and cars and bikes on the left. We are set up for that kind of awareness. Its really not hard. In general (I hate absolutes) its best to pass on the left. Its also best to have slower traffic move to the right especially when they become aware of faster moving traffic coming up from the rear. We ride as individuals in a larger cosmic group effort.
To ethereal there? Ok, how about this?- I see you behind me I will try to assist you in getting around me on my left. Don't be an @#$% and try to squeeze past me on the right. You are riding a cool bike and I don't want to think of you the same way I do as that guy over there in the Hummer.
As for announcing yourself- if you think I see you you do not really need to add to the cacophony on the streets. If you are unsure a little toot or otherwise (see my post above) would simply be considerate.
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Even for those of who use mirrors and check them regularly, it can be extremely difficult to spot the bike ninjas. If I'm lucky, I see them as silhouettes before they zoom up. More often they appear out of nowhere. At least a mirror can give some warning of overtaking cyclists in daylight - good reason to use one.
Bill Savage said:And people do indeed overtake at great speed, or come out of driveways or alleys, or join traffic betwen cars. And at night? With no lights? Dressed in black? My mirror is not much use at that point, is it?
notoriousDUG said:Something about this response has been bothering me and I couldn't figure out what it is but riding this morning I figured it out.
If you are being surprised by people passing you are either not checking your mirror as frequently as you claim, it is poorly aimed or your pace is not much above standing still. If you're going 10MPH from when they would be visible until you get passed should be more than just 5-10 seconds unless they are overtaking you at great speed.
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No, it is not disingenuous to compare it to driving. I don't pass anyone closer than arms length and I get yelled at from time to time and I think that is bullshit.
I do exactly what a car does. I wait for an opening, move over, accelerate, overtake with a safe margin of disatnce (about 3 feet) and then re-join the bike lane when well past the slower rider. Unless people are a complete spaz they have more than enough room to maneuver and if they have that hard a time controlling a bike they should maybe not be on one...
Sarah D. said:1) Biking and driving are totally different, I think it's disingenuous of you to make that comparison. BUT: 2) A bike sharrow/lane is a single lane, meant for one bicycle. If you need to pass, you come up behind, wait til it's clear, then take the shared car lane to pass outside on the left. Think of it like highway driving if you must - you can't pass on the shoulder, you have to wait till you can change lanes to the left, and go around slower vehicles.
Honestly I don't care about announcing as much as not getting nearly hit numerous times by asswipe cyclists who zoom by on the right of me, usually at intersections where I am trying to merge right to wait anyway (and - surprise! They are usually running through red lights). It's startling and stupid. Just PASS ON THE LEFT.
notoriousDUG said:If you are paying attention you don't get passed unexpectedly.
If you are driving do you expect other motorists to announce it before they pass you?
Sarah D. said:The point, Peter, is that it's not "unexpected" for *you* when you are passing, it's unexpected for the person in front of you, and thus creates an unneccesarily dangerous situation. Have the common sense - and decency - to announce your approach and to pass on the left. "Hold your line"? Are you serious?! - on Chicago's potholed/glassy/living streets - with Chicago drivers? You've got to be kidding me.
peter moorman said:
Come on y'all...expect the unexpected.
Its a big city ...lots of folks moving about here.
No big deal if riders don't communicate when coming around you... either side ... if your holding your line.
Do you expect a car driver to do the same. : "On yer left biker"
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An average person's arm, depending on the specific person, is just about 3' or a bit less to the fingertips. If you can reach out and clothesline the person passing you not only do they deserve it but I endorse it.
I am referring to the people who holler at you when you pass with 3 feet or more of room like the person I encountered on Damn the other day.
Bill Savage said:
Nope--not on Damen today, and if someone is way to my left, I do not say anything, since that's safe. It's the jerks who skim right on my mirror at twice my speed without any warning who get my rudeness.
notoriousDUG said:If I can pass you with a safe margin why should I need to announce it? Are you that unpredictable a rider?
If you're the guy who yelled 'on my left' at me on Damen today you are a complete ass because I was like 3 feet, or more, from you.
Bill Savage said:I ride slow (10 mph average) and so get passed a lot. When cyclists pass me on the left without warning, I always say "On MY left!" in a "F*&* You" tone of voice. Half the time, this elicits no response; about a quarter of the time I get an apology, and the rest of the time I'm told to perform an autoerotic impossibility. This last response especially comes from cyclists riding fast at night with no lights and dark clothes, so I don't see them in my mirror (which I check every five-ten seconds). This is, as so many of our conversations are, really about just plain old common sense and courtesy. And Amen to Beau Sessions's comment about the general etiquette of the road.
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DUG, I usually get behind your crankiness on here, but this time you're being douchey. You get yelled at because you're passing on the wrong side, and that is what's bs. Just pass on the passing side - the LEFT. Easy as pie, and will save you some grief and an innocent fellow cyclist a crash and some panic. Win-win!
notoriousDUG said:No, it is not disingenuous to compare it to driving. I don't pass anyone closer than arms length and I get yelled at from time to time and I think that is bullshit.
I do exactly what a car does. I wait for an opening, move over, accelerate, overtake with a safe margin of disatnce (about 3 feet) and then re-join the bike lane when well past the slower rider. Unless people are a complete spaz they have more than enough room to maneuver and if they have that hard a time controlling a bike they should maybe not be on one...
Sarah D. said:1) Biking and driving are totally different, I think it's disingenuous of you to make that comparison. BUT: 2) A bike sharrow/lane is a single lane, meant for one bicycle. If you need to pass, you come up behind, wait til it's clear, then take the shared car lane to pass outside on the left. Think of it like highway driving if you must - you can't pass on the shoulder, you have to wait till you can change lanes to the left, and go around slower vehicles.
Honestly I don't care about announcing as much as not getting nearly hit numerous times by asswipe cyclists who zoom by on the right of me, usually at intersections where I am trying to merge right to wait anyway (and - surprise! They are usually running through red lights). It's startling and stupid. Just PASS ON THE LEFT.
notoriousDUG said:If you are paying attention you don't get passed unexpectedly.
If you are driving do you expect other motorists to announce it before they pass you?
Sarah D. said:The point, Peter, is that it's not "unexpected" for *you* when you are passing, it's unexpected for the person in front of you, and thus creates an unneccesarily dangerous situation. Have the common sense - and decency - to announce your approach and to pass on the left. "Hold your line"? Are you serious?! - on Chicago's potholed/glassy/living streets - with Chicago drivers? You've got to be kidding me.
peter moorman said:
Come on y'all...expect the unexpected.
Its a big city ...lots of folks moving about here.
No big deal if riders don't communicate when coming around you... either side ... if your holding your line.
Do you expect a car driver to do the same. : "On yer left biker"
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