Critical Mass Discussion
After slamming Critical Mass, I'm thinking of doing the one in September so I can see what it's like to participate. I'm trying to keep an open mind, but I can't reconcile all of the inconvenience and disruption caused by CM with its lack of meaning. I appreciate civil disobedience, but only if it's to work toward some goal, which CM doesn't seem to have.
Can you help me understand CM better to help me decide if I should participate? I'm not trolling or being a devil's advocate - and I understand if no one wants to beat this dead horse yet again.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Crazy David 84 Furlongs on
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Joe Schmoe wrote:
If you think CM hasn't been a huge part of raising bicycle visibility, awareness, and safety, you are crazy. Cities used to be at complete war with CM, including mass arrests in NYC numerous times. The behavior of drivers is much, much, much improved in the 7 years I've been riding in the city. I haven't had anything thrown at me in almost 4 years now.
My comment:
This is exactly the kind of comments that the Viet Nam Protestors used to justify their protest marches. The problem is that an actual examination of attitudes showed that these marches delayed the actual intended goal. Bicycling was already getting some improved acceptance on the streets prior to the start of CM. CM isn't responsible for doing anything other than raising the perceptions (however unfair) that Bicyclists are a group of self-indulgent road hogs. I have been riding in the City for more than 20 years and it started to get better, than it got worse when CM showed up, and now it starting to get a little better, but gets offset everytime CM rides.
Joe Schome wrote:
Drivers get free use of all roads for 29.5 days out of every 30.
My comment:
And so, essentially, do Bicycles. How would you react if the Car Drivers demanded a "bike free" afternoon?
Joe Schmore wrote:
They can deal with having to wait 10 minutes at an intersection one day out of every month... and it's only a select area of the city. They're free to drive on all the other roads of Illinois unencumbered... including the ones that cyclists are banned from riding on ever (interstates, LSD, etc.).
My comment:
Its the choice of a high visibility target at the time that the delays most hit home to the drivers. Plus it is not an expected delay, it is an "artificial" delay created by one group of users to deny another group of users their ordinary use of the road.
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Permalink Reply by Adam Herstein on
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Funny, I could say the same thing about people who drive cars.
David crZven said:CM isn't responsible for doing anything other than raising the perceptions (however unfair) that Bicyclists are a group of self-indulgent road hogs.
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My comment:
To paraphrase Gilbert and Sullivan, the problem is not whether we like, but whether they do. The perception of the auto users is that CM is a bunch of self-indulgent "freaks" messing up traffic. Should it be "more annoying" to be delayed by bicycles than other cars? No. Is it? Well if you read just about any comments on CM outside of the Bicycling community, it is nothing but venom. And Venom at a very high level. We are NOT going to win converts by making people angry. Its the Viet Nam problem.
If CM is "serious" about the idea that it is a "bicycle ride to link together riders", it should not be done on a rush hour on downtown streets. And THIS bicycle rider endorses the concept of mass arrest and forfeiture of bicycles.
Adam Herstein said:Cars and bikes are both equally allowed on the streets; why is it fair that motorists get full use of it 100% of the time? Let us have our three hours out of the entire month. Car drivers get stuck in traffic all the time – why is it more annoying when it's a bunch of people on bikes stopping traffic instead of other cars?
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Can you PLEASE stop comparing Critical Mass to the Vietnam War? Vietnam was a war that cost millions of lives and almost brought our country to its knees. Critical Mass is a bike ride. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
David crZven said:My comment:
Its the Viet Nam problem.
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My comment:
I am old enough to remember the protests clearly. I am old enough to have known people who went to Viet Nam and died. (Older Brothers and Parents of Class mates). It wasn't the war that brought the country to its knees it was the well-intentioned, but wrong, protesters that divided the country.
That being said, the studies that talk about the protest movements are very important and relevant to the subject. Self-gratififying protests, whether they be Viet Nam War, Occupy Wall Street, Critical Mass and so on, DO NOT WORK and actually delay the very goals that they seek to achieve. Contrast these protests with the very successful Civil Rights Marches in which the marchers sought to emphasis the "similarities" between the Marchers and the rest of society. Dr. King and the many ministers of all races marching at the front wearing business suits and ties and engaging in peaceful protests.
The question is whether we wish to "have fun" or "be effective". Being effective would be the legal and proper mass ride following the traffic laws and showing to the cars and pedestrians that bicycles are a normal and ordinary part of the street scene. Its not nearly as "fun" as blocking intersections, but its a lot more effective.
Adam Herstein said:Can you PLEASE stop comparing Critical Mass to the Vietnam War? Vietnam was a war that killed millions of people and almost brought our country to its knees. Critical Mass is a bike ride. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
David crZven said:My comment:
Its the Viet Nam problem.
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Adam Herstein said:Can you PLEASE stop comparing Critical Mass to the Vietnam War? Vietnam was a war that cost millions of lives and almost brought our country to its knees. Critical Mass is a bike ride. THEY ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
David crZven said:My comment:
Its the Viet Nam problem.
adam, he's not. he's comparing one example if social activism with another. if ccm isn't activism but rather, a loosely organized bike ride, then I think it can't be defended at all. if it doesn't want to accept responsibility of what it has become (even if it has become this by sheer accident) then it has no place occupying a space better served by actual social activist organizations.
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Arrest for what? Riding our bikes? That kind of shit would NEVER fly today, especially with our bike-friendly mayor and CDOT commissioner. Maybe we should have mass arrests of motorists and impound their cars for speeding and nearly killing pedestrians on a day-to-day basis. A bunch of bikers riding down the street never hurt anyone, but a mass of cars certainly can and does.
David crZven said:THIS bicycle rider endorses the concept of mass arrest and forfeiture of bicycles.
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Permalink Reply by dan brown on
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yay willow !!! we love you CCC. I raise my "Fist" in honor of you and your dedication to CCM !
Dan
Crafty Cycling Chick said:I moved to Chicago on New Year's Day 2002 and started riding CCM in July 2002. CCM and its related events are how I met all but two of the people I know and love in Chicago. I learned how to ride all year long, ditched my lifelong Winter Blues, put the skills I learned in a sewing class to use to make balaclavas, gaiters, and scarves for shivering cyclists, and my 20-year love affair with making zines gets to be expressed through The Derailleur. I wonder what my life would look like if I hadn't ditched my car before moving to Chicago...I owe my happiness to CCM and the people I've met because of CCM. No one's whining is going to change my mind. xowillow
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My comment:
Mob action. Its not the riding of the Bicycles, it is the mass blocking of traffic and other civil disobedience. Again its not the perceptions of the riders, it is the perceptions of the majority. And they perceive that actions of CM as harmful. And Cars don't engage in CM like activities (blocking lights and the like) unless specifically allowed (Funerals).
And, frankly, forfeiture of cars would also be a good thing. I have always advocated forfeiture of any car found to be driven by an impaired driver. Even if they do not own the car. It puts pressure on the owner to make sure that they only loan out the car to someone who will act responsibly.
And you are sadly mistaken if you think that arrest and seizure of bicycles used in CM would "never" fly today. Go to some of the "auto-centric" blogs (The Expired Meter) and read some of the comments directed to Bicyclists in General and Critical Mass in particular. CM is making enemies for bicycle advocates. And that's the problem. If we want to make real progress, we have to stop treating the cars as the "mortal enemy" and we need to push for real and effective cooperative solutions.
Adam Herstein said:Arrest for what? Riding our bikes? That kind of shit would NEVER fly today, especially with our bike-friendly mayor and CDOT commissioner. Maybe we should have mass arrests of motorists and impound their cars for speeding and nearly killing pedestrians on a day-to-day basis. A bunch of bikers riding down the street never hurt anyone, but a mass of cars certainly can and does.
David crZven said:THIS bicycle rider endorses the concept of mass arrest and forfeiture of bicycles.
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David crZven said:My comment:
Mob action. Its not the riding of the Bicycles, it is the mass blocking of traffic and other civil disobedience. Again its not the perceptions of the riders, it is the perceptions of the majority. And they perceive that actions of CM as harmful. And Cars don't engage in CM like activities (blocking lights and the like) unless specifically allowed (Funerals).
And, frankly, forfeiture of cars would also be a good thing. I have always advocated forfeiture of any car found to be driven by an impaired driver. Even if they do not own the car. It puts pressure on the owner to make sure that they only loan out the car to someone who will act responsibly.
And you are sadly mistaken if you think that arrest and seizure of bicycles used in CM would "never" fly today. Go to some of the "auto-centric" blogs (The Expired Meter) and read some of the comments directed to Bicyclists in General and Critical Mass in particular. CM is making enemies for bicycle advocates. And that's the problem. If we want to make real progress, we have to stop treating the cars as the "mortal enemy" and we need to push for real and effective cooperative solutions.
Adam Herstein said:Arrest for what? Riding our bikes? That kind of shit would NEVER fly today, especially with our bike-friendly mayor and CDOT commissioner. Maybe we should have mass arrests of motorists and impound their cars for speeding and nearly killing pedestrians on a day-to-day basis. A bunch of bikers riding down the street never hurt anyone, but a mass of cars certainly can and does.
David crZven said:THIS bicycle rider endorses the concept of mass arrest and forfeiture of bicycles.
david, thank you. I'm glad to know my co-worker and I aren't alone.
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Permalink Reply by Davo on
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I've seen plenty of cars blocking lights, and occupying more than their fair share of the road. Look at the Damen/Milwaukee/Fullerton intersection during rush hours. Or just south of the river on Damen where there is supposed to be a shared lane. Or by any Starbucks in the morning where they are double parked. There are loads of other examples.
"And Cars don't engage in CM like activities (blocking lights and the like) unless specifically allowed (Funerals)."
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Davo said:I've seen plenty of cars blocking lights, and occupying more than their fair share of the road. Look at the Damen/Milwaukee/Fullerton intersection during rush hours. Or just south of the river on Damen where there is supposed to be a shared lane. Or by any Starbucks in the morning where they are double parked. There are loads of other examples.
"And Cars don't engage in CM like activities (blocking lights and the like) unless specifically allowed (Funerals)."
but they don't do it as an intentional form of activism. they're doing it because they're selfish, inconsiderate, impatient,... I don't think it's helpful to engage in a tit-for-tat as a method for improving social organization.
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