Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on August 22, 2012 at 6:48am

Thanks Howard. Yes I thought it was clear that I was referring to bike theft. That's why I specifically used the words "bike theft" and not parts theft. I incorrectly assumed that would be easy enough for even Brendan to understand.

h' said:

I think when Kevin wrote

locking skewers don't seem to be much of a deterrent to bike theft.

 it was perfectly clear that he was referring to bike theft, not parts theft.

 

Zoetrope said:

This is just bad advice.          

If a thief see's a bike with locking skewers, coupled with say a New York Lock (locked correctly), it's highly likely he will move on, depending on the circumstances of course.  Now I'm sure you're smart enough to know there are dozens of factors that play into a thief's decision to steal a bike at any given moment.  Cameras, daylight, high traffic area, and on and on.  So I have no idea why you feel so comfortable giving out advice like this to people who might benefit from using locking skewers.        

Apart from the obvious above, I've not once seen a post on the Chainlink, in my time here, where someone has reported a wheel theft when they had locking skewers on their bike.  How many thefts have I seen reported here while using a (crappy) U-lock?  Seems like every other day, lately at least.

Let's try not to be so black-and-white, yeah?   

Kevin C said:

Truthfully, locking skewers don't seem to be much of a deterrent to bike theft. The volume thieves don't ever intend to change a flat tire on the bike, they intend to flip it to some schmuck who won't be able to fix their flat tire. The only ones inconvenienced or daunted by locking skewers seem to be the owners. Make sure you have a lock on each wheel and leave it at that.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 22, 2012 at 8:10am

Skewers are pretty easy to defeat.  It's not anything as  hard as "picking" them.  Locks are picked -"locking" skewers really don't "lock" at all.  They are not "locks.'  They do not have tumblers or pins or anything like an actual lock -they are just a funny-shaped bolt/nut that isn't easy to get a purchase on without the funny-shaped socket.

I got yelled at the last time I mentioned on here the dollar-store item that can be used to defeat them but most real bike thieves know what that is anyhow.  It's not a secret..   Just know that it doesn't take anything but a common "tool" you can buy at a dollar  store or any goodwill/resale store.  The only "security" that locking skewers have is obscurity.   They aren't any harder to get off with the right "tool" than a nutted axle or a bolted skewer is with the right wrench than anyone can buy.  I fact the cost of the "tool" that is needed to take off a "locking" skewer is actually less than an allen set -usually $.50 to $1.    

Another issue with "locking" skewers or bolted skewers is that they are dangerous to use with horizontal dropouts.   They can not be tightened nearly as tight as the cam can tighten the skewer of a QR and it is easy to pull the axle with the chain and cause the whole rear wheel to skew and jam up against the chainstay.  If you do this in the middle of an intersection and crash when cars are coming soon you can get your ass run over.   I've seen a lot of folks using locking skewers and bolted skewers on older bikes with horizontal or semi-horizontal dropouts and cringe every time.   It's a disaster waiting to happen. 

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Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on August 22, 2012 at 1:47pm

This was taken from the "La Grange Police Arrest 2 for Metra Station Bike Thefts Thread":  "Although lock cutters were used in some of the thefts, we did note that most of the bicycles stolen had low-end locks, which were easily defeated," Holub said.

In the Clybourn station thread, you could have urged people to use a higher end lock but you instead chose to poo-poo skewers and walk away.  "The only ones inconvenienced or daunted by locking skewers seem to be the owners. Make sure you have a lock on each wheel and leave it at that."  So I guess you were being clear.  You're being even more clear now that you're a dickhead who likes to stir up arguments and will never admit fault.   

Kevin C said:

Thanks Howard. Yes I thought it was clear that I was referring to bike theft. That's why I specifically used the words "bike theft" and not parts theft. I incorrectly assumed that would be easy enough for even Brendan to understand.

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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on August 22, 2012 at 2:06pm

Perhaps someone needs a Safety Slap?

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Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on August 22, 2012 at 2:14pm

That's rich coming from maybe the biggest shit stirrer here.  Should I reply to you from now on or do you normally speak for Kevin?  Or maybe I just wont respond to you at all, like Kevin chose to do -- you know, because he's so above that.    

h' said:

I'm guessing Kevin decided the best course would be to just not respond when you posted this heap of non-sequitur earlier.

Is fighting on the internet really this important to you? Do you plan to continue to delete and repost this until he responds?

Could there be nothing else in our lives

so critical

as this little hole?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on August 22, 2012 at 4:25pm

Zoetrope-

I don’t know you and as far as I know, I don’t know anyone who knows you (and I know or have at least met a lot of people on the chainlink). I don’t know if you go on group rides or volunteer for any of the bike advocacy groups. The persona I know is the one you exhibit through your posts.

 

You used to be Brendan and you posted a thread about hitting a pedestrian in the Loop. That thread devolved into a flame war when you were surprised to see that very few people rushed to defend your position.

 

Now you’re Zoetrope and your account settings are set to private. As Zoetrope, you posted a thread about chasing down a motor vehicle that had done you wrong (a block or two before), and slapping the window hard enough that you were surprised that you didn’t break it. Again, you were surprised to see that very few people rushed to defend your position.

 

Today, you posted on a thread that was begun over a year ago, quoted me out of context, and used that as proof that I’m giving bad advice. The correct context of my quote was as follows:

 

Kevin C:

 

“Truthfully, locking skewers don't seem to be much of a deterrent to bike theft. The volume thieves don't ever intend to change a flat tire on the bike, they intend to flip it to some schmuck who won't be able to fix their flat tire. The only ones inconvenienced or daunted by locking skewers seem to be the owners. Make sure you have a lock on each wheel and leave it at that.

 

Lauren said:

 

Eric,

My current rear skewer isn't quick release because the bike is a really old mountain bike, and that's what it came with. I did used to use locking skewers (I think it was the On Guard brand) but stopped after one got a little stripped so my wheel would rub on the brake pad, and it also became a little annoying having them, since, for example, if I took my bike to the shop, I had to remember to leave the key for the skewer. Also, I always lock both my wheels (front with a u-lock, rear with a cable lock) so the locking skewers were probably overkill anyway.”

 

 

My post was a direct response to a post regarding the inconvenience of locking skewers relative to the benefits. I stand by that response. James BlackHeron did a nice job today of articulating a cost/benefit analysis of locking skewers.

 

The reason for my post which so offends you is that I’ve been an administrator for the Chicago Stolen Bike Registry for two years. I’ve read close to two thousand theft reports. I’ve met with Chicago police officers from the 9^th, 14^th, and 19^th districts as well as the Illinois State Police and Wilmette Police Department regarding bike theft. I have been to the Swap O Rama at 42^nd and Ashland more than 30 times, and I have read an enormous amount of material about bike theft. I have assisted people with recoveries of stolen bikes which were located on Craigslist. So I’m not just throwing out suppositions here.

 

Are there people more knowledgeable about bike theft than me? Absolutely, and I continue to learn. It’s just that you’re not one of them.

 

My job for the past 20+ years has been to fight and no one else speaks for me. Your posts strike me as belligerent, immature, and not particularly informative. You have clearly not yet learned that you still have much to learn. Once someone calls me a “dickhead,” they have already conceded defeat.

Zoetrope said:

That's rich coming from maybe the biggest shit stirrer here.  Should I reply to you from now on or do you normally speak for Kevin?  Or maybe I just wont respond to you at all, like Kevin chose to do -- you know, because he's so above that.    

h' said:

I'm guessing Kevin decided the best course would be to just not respond when you posted this heap of non-sequitur earlier.

Is fighting on the internet really this important to you? Do you plan to continue to delete and repost this until he responds?

Could there be nothing else in our lives

so critical

as this little hole?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on August 22, 2012 at 4:42pm

You learn quickly, Kevin C.  I'm not sure who taught you, but apparently you've learned that some things you post on the internet live forever unless you erase them -- example being your post from a year ago that you sort of own up to but sort of don't want to either because you point out that it was a year ago...

I haven't met you or seen you either, and I also only know you through your posts.  It doesn't seem like either of us would like to change that, or am I wrong?  If you saw me in person, what would you say?  Would you list off all the great things you do for cyclists in the city again?  Would we become friends, and then take our friendship online to the Chainlink and back each other up in arguments, truth be damned?  Further, I had pasta for dinner tonight, so you can add that to my recent timeline of events.

Lastly, there was nothing taken out of context.  You said don't bother with locking skewers.    

Kevin C said:

Zoetrope-

I don’t know you and as far as I know, I don’t know anyone who knows you (and I know or have at least met a lot of people on the chainlink). I don’t know if you go on group rides or volunteer for any of the bike advocacy groups. The persona I know is the one you exhibit through your posts.

You used to be Brendan and you posted a thread about hitting a pedestrian in the Loop. That thread devolved into a flame war when you were surprised to see that very few people rushed to defend your position.

Now you’re Zoetrope and your account settings are set to private. As Zoetrope, you posted a thread about chasing down a motor vehicle that had done you wrong (a block or two before), and slapping the window hard enough that you were surprised that you didn’t break it. Again, you were surprised to see that very few people rushed to defend your position.

Today, you posted on a thread that was begun over a year ago, quoted me out of context, and used that as proof that I’m giving bad advice. The correct context of my quote was as follows:

Kevin C:

“Truthfully, locking skewers don't seem to be much of a deterrent to bike theft. The volume thieves don't ever intend to change a flat tire on the bike, they intend to flip it to some schmuck who won't be able to fix their flat tire. The only ones inconvenienced or daunted by locking skewers seem to be the owners. Make sure you have a lock on each wheel and leave it at that.

Lauren said:

Eric,

My current rear skewer isn't quick release because the bike is a really old mountain bike, and that's what it came with. I did used to use locking skewers (I think it was the On Guard brand) but stopped after one got a little stripped so my wheel would rub on the brake pad, and it also became a little annoying having them, since, for example, if I took my bike to the shop, I had to remember to leave the key for the skewer. Also, I always lock both my wheels (front with a u-lock, rear with a cable lock) so the locking skewers were probably overkill anyway.”

 

My post was a direct response to a post regarding the inconvenience of locking skewers relative to the benefits. I stand by that response. James BlackHeron did a nice job today of articulating a cost/benefit analysis of locking skewers.

The reason for my post which so offends you is that I’ve been an administrator for the Chicago Stolen Bike Registry for two years. I’ve read close to two thousand theft reports. I’ve met with Chicago police officers from the 9^th, 14^th, and 19^th districts as well as the Illinois State Police and Wilmette Police Department regarding bike theft. I have been to the Swap O Rama at 42^nd and Ashland more than 30 times, and I have read an enormous amount of material about bike theft. I have assisted people with recoveries of stolen bikes which were located on Craigslist. So I’m not just throwing out suppositions here.

Are there people more knowledgeable about bike theft than me? Absolutely, and I continue to learn. It’s just that you’re not one of them.

My job for the past 20+ years has been to fight and no one else speaks for me. Your posts strike me as belligerent, immature, and not particularly informative. You have clearly not yet learned that you still have much to learn. Once someone calls me a “dickhead,” they have already conceded defeat.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Barry Aldridge on August 22, 2012 at 5:54pm

Since there is almost no foot traffic there (except for people using the train), the streets are full of distracted drivers trying to navigate that confusing intersection and it's isolated between two overpasses, it is about the perfect location for bike thieves. During the day the trains run so infrequently, a thief would have plenty of time to saw through the most hardened lock. All you can do is make your bike a less attractive target than the others, somewhere on the "super lousy bike - incredible, heavy locks" continuum.

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Permalink Reply by Michele on August 22, 2012 at 6:07pm

I am curious where exactly at this station these thefts are occurring. There are multiple locations in or around that station to lock bikes.

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Hulbert on August 30, 2012 at 12:12pm

I had my bike stolen about a week ago.  Is it far, far, far too late to take a trip down to the swap-a-rama? I imagine that they don't have a long life span there?  

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Permalink Reply by Jeff Hulbert on August 30, 2012 at 6:07pm

Thanks for the response.  And yes, that was a typo on my part.  Not a week.  A month ago. 

Thanks for the insight too.  And VERY glad to hear you were to return someone else's property to them.  Has to be a really rewarding feeling.  

If you would ever be willing to share any other thoughts on the topic with me, you would find me to be all ears. 

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Permalink Reply by Apie (11) on August 31, 2012 at 3:57am

When you guys speak of Swap o Rama are you always refering to the one on Ashland?  Or do you check both Ashland And Melrose Park? 

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