Clark Park Boathouse Discussion

Clark Park is a pristine river front park which contains acres of green space and a half mile river front trail, soccer fields, native gardens and a state-of-the-art BMX trail. Also, it has a public canoe/kayak launch and is a recognized butterfly sanctuary and bird watching habitat.


We oppose constructing a 2 acre sized boat warehouse/crewing facility which will negatively impact the park - it will be too large for Clark Park and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete, increased vehicle traffic, and will interrupt existing activities at the park. The public demands a period of public review to investigate moving the facility to a larger park or a different location.


A much smaller boathouse facility could be constructed at Clark Park, containing canoes/kayak, badly needed washrooms and a public water source, concessios and possible bike rental. Green Space is the most valuable resource in the parks, especially in this one-of-a-kind riverfront park - it must be protected for future generations.


http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-park-district-and-the-city-... 


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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 5, 2012 at 11:46am

There is transportation cycling and pleasure cycling.  

I think pleasure cycling is sort of like pleasure rowing -it's not really transportation for the 99% of  People out there unless you live in a swamp or Venice Italy.  A rowing shell probably isn't a conveyance or transportation vehicle for 99% of People even there.

So I guess if you chose pleasure rowing infrastructure for the 1% over infrastructure for transportation 8-80 cycling that doesn't make you "anti-cycling" but it does sort of go on the record of chosing rowing over transportation cycling in my mind.  All life is choices and everyone gets to make their own.  Mine is to chose transportation cycling over sport (and although I do enjoy my sport cycling too I chose sport cycling over other sports like rowing/crew or Jai Alai.)

The Dill Pickle is laid out inside a bit closely-packed for someone who likes his personal space [-] so I don't go in there much although I do wait by the bikes when my wife goes in there sometimes.  But I think I'll drop by sometime this week and give them a little moral support.

notoriousDUG said:

Dill Pickle just lost a customer.

You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 6, 2012 at 9:25am

Thank you James, you are doing a better job of articulating my position than I am.

But to address a few of the points I missed:

1. I am in no way associated with CPAC.  I have watched & appreciated their improvements to the park for a number of years, so yes, when I see that various City of Chicago agencies/personnel have been scheming in the proverbial smoke-filled rooms and then disrespect CPAC's advocacy work, it makes me friggin mad.   As a matter of principle, Chicagoans as a whole should be outraged when planners go around neighborhood constituencies, so right off the bat, independent of any details of the the project, this is unacceptable in my opinion.

2.  In that regard, Lisa did make an interesting point I meant to follow up on.  She's right - the City's website documents no longer include the drawings with the bridge. 

Now, I know for a fact they *were* there, as that's why I posted the original thread on this last July with the links.  Silly me for not appreciating the depths that some people will sink, I am kicking myself for not actually downloading and saving the pdfs last year, but they are huge and it didn't seem necessary.   However, Bill Donahue did link to plans including the bridge, and they most definitely were in the TIF, 47th ward staffer Bill Higgins' comments clearly indicate a bridge had been on the "to do" list.

3.  My wife kindly alerted me to the fact that bike lanes were being installed on Roscoe between Damen and Western this weekend (hurrah).  So clearly the value of Roscoe as an alternative cycling route is well-known.  Why anyone would expect that dangling a cyclist bridge over the river there and then taking it away for a private boathouse would get anything BUT strong negative reactions is beyond me.

While I appreciate Lisa's comments regarding supporting bike lanes on Addison and Belmont, I'm not sure why she/others don't get that many of us have been advocating and pressing our elected officials for those for years.  They aren't on the table for some very specific reasons including IDOT jurisdiction, and while maybe they will eventually get prioritized, it ain't gonna happen any time soon. 

4.  That said, I would again emphasize I really have nothing against the concept of a boathouse, per se.  My problem is the location, and it being privatized.  A facility that like that doesn't belong on public land.  But, to put something that requires one pay rent as a choice over a free and public bridge, is (as James clearly described) is the City and anyone who supports the boathouse favoring privatizing public land over creating more safe transportation options for the public on bike.

That's all.  I will re-state that no, not favoring the bridge does not make one anti-bike, I am specifically talking about where one stands on this single issue, and I'm not going to backtrack on that position, it is black and white.

Summarizing:

Backroom deals +

Forcing unwanted privatized infrastructure into public land +

Deprioritising existing bike infrastructure plans which would open this park/commuting path to tens and tens of thousands of residents west of the river =

One angry and frustrated lifetime resident of this area.  And I guarantee you that are way more people like me out there than anyone here knows, they've just been kept in the dark so they aren't having their voices heard, which is also wrong.

Dug - if you're going to boycott the Dill Pickle you should at least be consistent and boycott a fairly substantial swath of the City that I've in some capacity also done volunteer work for.  So I hope you don't really need to be in the 32nd or 35th ward, or in Humboldt Park or in of the parks (names available on request) I've done tree-plantings and other work for.  But I will make you a deal - you come out to the river clean up next Saturday for Clark Park and lunch & drinks are on me.

James BlackHeron said:

There is transportation cycling and pleasure cycling.  

I think pleasure cycling is sort of like pleasure rowing -it's not really transportation for the 99% of  People out there unless you live in a swamp or Venice Italy.  A rowing shell probably isn't a conveyance or transportation vehicle for 99% of People even there.

So I guess if you chose pleasure rowing infrastructure for the 1% over infrastructure for transportation 8-80 cycling that doesn't make you "anti-cycling" but it does sort of go on the record of chosing rowing over transportation cycling in my mind.  All life is choices and everyone gets to make their own.  Mine is to chose transportation cycling over sport (and although I do enjoy my sport cycling too I chose sport cycling over other sports like rowing/crew or Jai Alai.)

The Dill Pickle is laid out inside a bit closely-packed for someone who likes his personal space [-] so I don't go in there much although I do wait by the bikes when my wife goes in there sometimes.  But I think I'll drop by sometime this week and give them a little moral support.

notoriousDUG said:

Dill Pickle just lost a customer.

You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:

Permalink Reply by Kevin T. on May 6, 2012 at 10:59am
Thanks Carter.
Permalink Reply by Kevin T. on May 6, 2012 at 11:04am
BTW, over 500 signatures on the petition. Yes, the flawed petition, ha-ha.
Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 7, 2012 at 3:01am

Some more details on Roscoe & good news I think we can all get behind:

http://gridchicago.com/2012/roscoe-street-gets-buffered-bike-lanes/...

Permalink Reply by Night Owl on May 7, 2012 at 8:24am

Point of clarification:  the CPD does NOT have to have their annual budget approved by the City Council.  They are an independent government agency and their only official connection to the city of Chicago is the fact that the mayor is responsible for appointing their board members.  Officially, they set their own budget and their own priorities.  Now, unofficially...

Kevin C said:

The Chicago Park District is an advisory body/decision-maker hybrid. CPD has an annual budget over which they have pretty broad discretion, but extra-budgetary actions require City Council approval, and of course, they need to get their budget approved every year.

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 7, 2012 at 8:50am

Perhaps relevant to some of the earlier discussion regarding why TPTB might have reversed themselves on a Roscoe Ave river bridge:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20090917/CRED03/20003...

Anyone have a good link to the story about how WMS is getting control of that slice of Roscoe? I saw discussion of it but just curious if it was actually reported.

btw, I misspoke earlier and called Liz "Lisa," sorry about that Liz.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 7, 2012 at 8:58am

This was pretty obvious from the very start of the whole thing.   Green battery plants and city streets for sale  to the industry darling friends of the machine and other high-rollers...

But the real question is what is the motive behind _the usual suspects_ long-time Chainlink members throwing in with all the machine cronyism and against hard-fought transportation cycling plans? 

Carter O'Brien said:

Perhaps relevant to some of the earlier discussion regarding why TPTB might have reversed themselves on a Roscoe Ave river bridge:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20090917/CRED03/20003...

Anyone have a good link to the story about how WMS is getting control of that slice of Roscoe? I saw discussion of it but just curious if it was actually reported.

btw, I misspoke earlier and called Liz "Lisa," sorry about that Liz.

Permalink Reply by Liz on May 7, 2012 at 9:08am

The tiff for the "bridge funds" was part of the Addison industrial corridor revitalization, therefore priority for the money would be towards expansion of facilities.  

I'm less concerned about the apology for my name, I would much prefer an apology for your personal attacks and general disrespect towards me.

Carter O'Brien said:

Perhaps relevant to some of the earlier discussion regarding why TPTB might have reversed themselves on a Roscoe Ave river bridge:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20090917/CRED03/20003...

Anyone have a good link to the story about how WMS is getting control of that slice of Roscoe? I saw discussion of it but just curious if it was actually reported.

btw, I misspoke earlier and called Liz "Lisa," sorry about that Liz.

Permalink Reply by Night Owl on May 7, 2012 at 9:08am

Also, the Park District released the agenda for their next Executive Board meeting.  They are set to approve the contact for construction for the boathouse this Wednesday.  I assume that the design is for the larger facility being discussed here.

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 7, 2012 at 9:47am

When you're able to apologize for the backroom dealings of the agencies & the disrespect to the larger community I'll be happy to extend one. 

I'm sure you are a very nice person, but what's been lacking from your posts is any sense of the magnitude of wrongdoing here. 

We're not debating shades of paint here.  This is a permanent and epic backstabbing which is at best unethical, and may in fact be criminal. 

We have lost a golden opportunity for bicycling infrastructure in a truly unsafe and underserved part of the North Side.  A golden opportunity many people in this neighborhood put a lot of hard work into.

Liz said:

The tiff for the "bridge funds" was part of the Addison industrial corridor revitalization, therefore priority for the money would be towards expansion of facilities.  

I'm less concerned about the apology for my name, I would much prefer an apology for your personal attacks and general disrespect towards me.

Carter O'Brien said:

Perhaps relevant to some of the earlier discussion regarding why TPTB might have reversed themselves on a Roscoe Ave river bridge:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20090917/CRED03/20003...

Anyone have a good link to the story about how WMS is getting control of that slice of Roscoe? I saw discussion of it but just curious if it was actually reported.

btw, I misspoke earlier and called Liz "Lisa," sorry about that Liz.

Permalink Reply by Tim S on May 7, 2012 at 9:51am
My support of the boat house was started when there was a slew of false information spread here, Yelp, CMBA, and on the change.org petition. I was against the tactics and jenky flawed petition they are going to present as proof of no ones support for the boat house. This never had anything to do with a proposed bridge that never got beyond the typed in a proposal phase.

You two are almost as bad as the CPAC with loose facts and misrepresentation.

Go boat house.

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