The Chainlink

Clark Park Boathouse Discussion

Clark Park is a pristine river front park which contains acres of green space and a half mile river front trail, soccer fields, native gardens and a state-of-the-art BMX trail. Also, it has a public canoe/kayak launch and is a recognized butterfly sanctuary and bird watching habitat.


We oppose constructing a 2 acre sized boat warehouse/crewing facility which will negatively impact the park - it will be too large for Clark Park and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete, increased vehicle traffic, and will interrupt existing activities at the park. The public demands a period of public review to investigate moving the facility to a larger park or a different location.


A much smaller boathouse facility could be constructed at Clark Park, containing canoes/kayak, badly needed washrooms and a public water source, concessios and possible bike rental. Green Space is the most valuable resource in the parks, especially in this one-of-a-kind riverfront park - it must be protected for future generations.


http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-park-district-and-the-city-... 


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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on May 5, 2012 at 4:46pm

Dill Pickle just lost a customer.

You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:

"

Cameron, the debate is no longer just "should there be a boathouse."

The debate is, "should there be a boathouse knowing that means we don't get a bike/pedestrian bridge."

So yes - you choose the boathouse, you are being anti-cyclist."

Did it ever occur to you that people could want one thing more than another and just be 'pro' what they want without being 'anti' anything?  If somebody, in a given situation, is for one thing at the expense of another it does not mean they are 'anti' the other, they just value one thing over the other.  When you tell people they are 'anti' something or make their end of an argument a negative or 'bad' side of the issue rather than just another viewpoint you make them defensive and upset; it is not a path to a fruitful discussion just to a shit-show that degrades into hurt feelings and people taking it personally just like this whole thing has.

Of course there is also the concept that brief, clear and simple statements work best for arguing issues and you have missed that mark completely as well so I am just guessing you are shitty at communicating with people in a positive manner...

As for the park I, personally, could give to shits what gets built there, how much stays green space or if they just pave the whole thing over into a parking lot; I was just weighing in because I *tried* to read this thread to get useful info about what was happening in the park and was overwhelmed by what an asshat you were.



Carter O'Brien said:

Let me clarify this one last time, then

I didn't say anyone who wants to row or doesn't care about this bridge hates cyclists or biking, that's obviously ridiculous. 

What I said  - and am saying - is supporting a private boathouse instead of a public ped/cycling bridge is anti-bike. It is anti-bike ON THIS ISSUE, it is choosing a project which favors people of means making a land grab on a public area which otherwise could be a multi-purpose win-win for many.

The metric is 8 - 80, that's ATA's, and one which stems spiritually from the Iroquois Federation's 7 generations rule of thumb.  A bike/ped bridge wins on every count - kids, teens, adults, families, seniors would all benefit.

This is NOT a complex issue.  That's where you are dead wrong.  This is cut and dry.  The community had existing plans which left a healthy amount of open space yet also improved facilities for the canoers, kayakers and other park users, and which also included the bridge.  Now we have 11th hour schemery and a land grab by a small and clearly well-connected group.

I know which side I'm on.

As for what I do?  A funny demand coming from an anonymous poster, but what the hell, I don't generally toot my own horn but I'll give it a shot.

So let's see - I taught in CPS, including a special ed class that was largely full of kids from Cabrini Green.  I've worked in the non-profit sector at the Field Museum for 15 years, helping my division of some 150+ people do groundbreaking scientific research. I've also been on the green team that entire time, and have chaired it for about the last 7.  We were the first museum in the country to have a shared bikes program, something I personally walked through the system from concept to implementation:

http://fieldmuseum.org/about/field-museum-launches-shared-bike-prog...

I co-founded Bike Walk Logan Square last year:

http://bikewalklogansquare.wordpress.com/

Alas, I cannot say I have gotten a bridge built.

I became a member of the old Bike Federation in maybe 98.  They will have my support until the day I die just for the North Avenue bike path overhaul.  The Navy Pier Flyover is what I recognize as a modern-day miracle.

I Chair the Dill Pickle Co-Op's Finance Committee and we are in final stages of expansion planning, when that's done I'll get back involved more on the cycling front.

Oh, and Chicago Fair Trade invented an award for me:

http://www.chicagofairtrade.org/aboutus/information-about-us/174-cf...

There are now three, it's an amazing community to be a part of. 

And I'm a Treekeeper (badge #793, I love saying that). 

I have also probably worked in some capacity on about 8 - 10 political campaigns, I am most proud of getting on board and stumping for Scot Waguespack when nobody gave him a snowball's chance in hell of unseating a hack leftover from the Rostenkowski machine - coincidentally, that bozo promised our neighborhood back in the late 90s that he was going to fix the Fullerton, Elston & Damen intersection, making it more friendly for traffic of all types.  It's Scott Waguespack that has actually done the work which is going to make that happen.

It is humbling to have been privileged to work with all the people I have to improve the City.  I know the difference between an improvement for the people and a land grab. 

I really don't care what you think of me, and I don't care if I'm alienating you or anyone else, because as I see it there is no "on the fence" here, this is as close to a 100% good-vs-evil situation as I have ever seen in Chicago, using Epton vs. Washington as my barometer for that. 

I believe that answers your questions.

Now, can you tell me why it is you feel that the 40,000 people in Avondale and 74,000 people in Logan Square don't deserve a safe path east across the river?  Or why the people who take care of Clark Park and have been striving to make it better for everyone should be subjected to this kind of disrespect from their government?

notoriousDUG said:

Ya know what buddy, go f-yerself and the horse you rode in on and, while I am at it, let it be known that in my book any cause you are a part of needs to be pretty damn worthy or I am going to oppose it just on the general principal of you being involved.  Never before have I seen a person not only be horrible at making their case but also excel at damaging it. 

Not only do I not post anonymously here (yeah, it's a screen name but if you are active on this board you not only probably know my full name but the bike shop I work at) but I come out to enough events that most folks on here have meet me for real; where have you been?  Who do you know?  And, most importantly, who in the hell are you to tell me if I am part of the problem or not!?  What do you know about me that allows you to declare me 'anti-bike' because I am not siding with you on an complex issue you never seem to be able to give us all the facts on?

Are you really so simple minded you think you can just get people to blindly follow your cause by accusing them of not being supportive of cycling or trying to make it seem like we have been invaded by rowers?  I have bad news for you junior; the folks here are smarter than that.

Let me ask you this: What have YOU done about advocating for cycling beyond bullied people here and been a jerk about the bike bridge?  What are YOU doing to get people on bikes?  Where are you volunteering your time?  What bike organizations are you volunteering or helping at?  You want to challenge me on being pro/anti-bike bring it on because I do not think there is a person here who knows me that would tell you I am not, on the whole, very pro-bike and work at helping to make biking better.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 5, 2012 at 5:46pm

There is transportation cycling and pleasure cycling.  

I think pleasure cycling is sort of like pleasure rowing -it's not really transportation for the 99% of  People out there unless you live in a swamp or Venice Italy.  A rowing shell probably isn't a conveyance or transportation vehicle for 99% of People even there.

So I guess if you chose pleasure rowing infrastructure for the 1% over infrastructure for transportation 8-80 cycling that doesn't make you "anti-cycling" but it does sort of go on the record of chosing rowing over transportation cycling in my mind.  All life is choices and everyone gets to make their own.  Mine is to chose transportation cycling over sport (and although I do enjoy my sport cycling too I chose sport cycling over other sports like rowing/crew or Jai Alai.)

The Dill Pickle is laid out inside a bit closely-packed for someone who likes his personal space [-] so I don't go in there much although I do wait by the bikes when my wife goes in there sometimes.  But I think I'll drop by sometime this week and give them a little moral support.

notoriousDUG said:

Dill Pickle just lost a customer.

You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 6, 2012 at 3:25pm

Thank you James, you are doing a better job of articulating my position than I am.

But to address a few of the points I missed:

1. I am in no way associated with CPAC.  I have watched & appreciated their improvements to the park for a number of years, so yes, when I see that various City of Chicago agencies/personnel have been scheming in the proverbial smoke-filled rooms and then disrespect CPAC's advocacy work, it makes me friggin mad.   As a matter of principle, Chicagoans as a whole should be outraged when planners go around neighborhood constituencies, so right off the bat, independent of any details of the the project, this is unacceptable in my opinion.

2.  In that regard, Lisa did make an interesting point I meant to follow up on.  She's right - the City's website documents no longer include the drawings with the bridge. 

Now, I know for a fact they *were* there, as that's why I posted the original thread on this last July with the links.  Silly me for not appreciating the depths that some people will sink, I am kicking myself for not actually downloading and saving the pdfs last year, but they are huge and it didn't seem necessary.   However, Bill Donahue did link to plans including the bridge, and they most definitely were in the TIF, 47th ward staffer Bill Higgins' comments clearly indicate a bridge had been on the "to do" list.

3.  My wife kindly alerted me to the fact that bike lanes were being installed on Roscoe between Damen and Western this weekend (hurrah).  So clearly the value of Roscoe as an alternative cycling route is well-known.  Why anyone would expect that dangling a cyclist bridge over the river there and then taking it away for a private boathouse would get anything BUT strong negative reactions is beyond me.

While I appreciate Lisa's comments regarding supporting bike lanes on Addison and Belmont, I'm not sure why she/others don't get that many of us have been advocating and pressing our elected officials for those for years.  They aren't on the table for some very specific reasons including IDOT jurisdiction, and while maybe they will eventually get prioritized, it ain't gonna happen any time soon. 

4.  That said, I would again emphasize I really have nothing against the concept of a boathouse, per se.  My problem is the location, and it being privatized.  A facility that like that doesn't belong on public land.  But, to put something that requires one pay rent as a choice over a free and public bridge, is (as James clearly described) is the City and anyone who supports the boathouse favoring privatizing public land over creating more safe transportation options for the public on bike.

That's all.  I will re-state that no, not favoring the bridge does not make one anti-bike, I am specifically talking about where one stands on this single issue, and I'm not going to backtrack on that position, it is black and white.

Summarizing:

Backroom deals +

Forcing unwanted privatized infrastructure into public land +

Deprioritising existing bike infrastructure plans which would open this park/commuting path to tens and tens of thousands of residents west of the river =

One angry and frustrated lifetime resident of this area.  And I guarantee you that are way more people like me out there than anyone here knows, they've just been kept in the dark so they aren't having their voices heard, which is also wrong.

Dug - if you're going to boycott the Dill Pickle you should at least be consistent and boycott a fairly substantial swath of the City that I've in some capacity also done volunteer work for.  So I hope you don't really need to be in the 32nd or 35th ward, or in Humboldt Park or in of the parks (names available on request) I've done tree-plantings and other work for.  But I will make you a deal - you come out to the river clean up next Saturday for Clark Park and lunch & drinks are on me.

James BlackHeron said:

There is transportation cycling and pleasure cycling.  

I think pleasure cycling is sort of like pleasure rowing -it's not really transportation for the 99% of  People out there unless you live in a swamp or Venice Italy.  A rowing shell probably isn't a conveyance or transportation vehicle for 99% of People even there.

So I guess if you chose pleasure rowing infrastructure for the 1% over infrastructure for transportation 8-80 cycling that doesn't make you "anti-cycling" but it does sort of go on the record of chosing rowing over transportation cycling in my mind.  All life is choices and everyone gets to make their own.  Mine is to chose transportation cycling over sport (and although I do enjoy my sport cycling too I chose sport cycling over other sports like rowing/crew or Jai Alai.)

The Dill Pickle is laid out inside a bit closely-packed for someone who likes his personal space [-] so I don't go in there much although I do wait by the bikes when my wife goes in there sometimes.  But I think I'll drop by sometime this week and give them a little moral support.

notoriousDUG said:

Dill Pickle just lost a customer.

You said it yourself that being pro-boathouse was anti-bike:

Permalink Reply by Kevin T. on May 6, 2012 at 4:59pm
Thanks Carter.
Permalink Reply by Kevin T. on May 6, 2012 at 5:04pm
BTW, over 500 signatures on the petition. Yes, the flawed petition, ha-ha.
Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 7, 2012 at 9:01am

Some more details on Roscoe & good news I think we can all get behind:

http://gridchicago.com/2012/roscoe-street-gets-buffered-bike-lanes/...

Permalink Reply by Night Owl on May 7, 2012 at 2:24pm

Point of clarification:  the CPD does NOT have to have their annual budget approved by the City Council.  They are an independent government agency and their only official connection to the city of Chicago is the fact that the mayor is responsible for appointing their board members.  Officially, they set their own budget and their own priorities.  Now, unofficially...

Kevin C said:

The Chicago Park District is an advisory body/decision-maker hybrid. CPD has an annual budget over which they have pretty broad discretion, but extra-budgetary actions require City Council approval, and of course, they need to get their budget approved every year.

Permalink Reply by Carter O'Brien on May 7, 2012 at 2:50pm

Perhaps relevant to some of the earlier discussion regarding why TPTB might have reversed themselves on a Roscoe Ave river bridge:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20090917/CRED03/20003...

Anyone have a good link to the story about how WMS is getting control of that slice of Roscoe? I saw discussion of it but just curious if it was actually reported.

btw, I misspoke earlier and called Liz "Lisa," sorry about that Liz.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on May 7, 2012 at 2:58pm

This was pretty obvious from the very start of the whole thing.   Green battery plants and city streets for sale  to the industry darling friends of the machine and other high-rollers...

But the real question is what is the motive behind _the usual suspects_ long-time Chainlink members throwing in with all the machine cronyism and against hard-fought transportation cycling plans? 

Carter O'Brien said:

Perhaps relevant to some of the earlier discussion regarding why TPTB might have reversed themselves on a Roscoe Ave river bridge:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20090917/CRED03/20003...

Anyone have a good link to the story about how WMS is getting control of that slice of Roscoe? I saw discussion of it but just curious if it was actually reported.

btw, I misspoke earlier and called Liz "Lisa," sorry about that Liz.

Permalink Reply by Liz on May 7, 2012 at 3:08pm

The tiff for the "bridge funds" was part of the Addison industrial corridor revitalization, therefore priority for the money would be towards expansion of facilities.  

I'm less concerned about the apology for my name, I would much prefer an apology for your personal attacks and general disrespect towards me.

Carter O'Brien said:

Perhaps relevant to some of the earlier discussion regarding why TPTB might have reversed themselves on a Roscoe Ave river bridge:

http://www.chicagorealestatedaily.com/article/20090917/CRED03/20003...

Anyone have a good link to the story about how WMS is getting control of that slice of Roscoe? I saw discussion of it but just curious if it was actually reported.

btw, I misspoke earlier and called Liz "Lisa," sorry about that Liz.

Permalink Reply by Night Owl on May 7, 2012 at 3:08pm

Also, the Park District released the agenda for their next Executive Board meeting.  They are set to approve the contact for construction for the boathouse this Wednesday.  I assume that the design is for the larger facility being discussed here.

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on May 7, 2012 at 3:43pm

That's an excellent question.

James BlackHeron said:

This was pretty obvious from the very start of the whole thing.   Green battery plants and city streets for sale  to the industry darling friends of the machine and other high-rollers...

But the real question is what is the motive behind _the usual suspects_ long-time Chainlink members throwing in with all the machine cronyism and against hard-fought transportation cycling plans? 

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