Clark Park Boathouse Discussion

Clark Park is a pristine river front park which contains acres of green space and a half mile river front trail, soccer fields, native gardens and a state-of-the-art BMX trail. Also, it has a public canoe/kayak launch and is a recognized butterfly sanctuary and bird watching habitat.


We oppose constructing a 2 acre sized boat warehouse/crewing facility which will negatively impact the park - it will be too large for Clark Park and introduce a 3 story building, surrounded by concrete, increased vehicle traffic, and will interrupt existing activities at the park. The public demands a period of public review to investigate moving the facility to a larger park or a different location.


A much smaller boathouse facility could be constructed at Clark Park, containing canoes/kayak, badly needed washrooms and a public water source, concessios and possible bike rental. Green Space is the most valuable resource in the parks, especially in this one-of-a-kind riverfront park - it must be protected for future generations.


http://www.change.org/petitions/chicago-park-district-and-the-city-... 


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Permalink Reply by Night Owl on April 5, 2012 at 10:02am

The city has setback easements along the river for any new development so 30+ feet is now cordoned off for future development of a riverfront park - which WMS is complying with in their new construction - and I'd reckon that the turn over of the street is requiring a public easement for river and trail access.  CDOT, believe it or not, is staffed with an absurd amount of smart people.

Duppie said:

Because it would kill any future plans for a bike/pedestrian bridge over the river at Roscoe?

Because it is a public access point to the river?

Because it is the northernmost exit point for a river trail?



tj said:

Why not turn it over to WMS and make it their problem - especially when they are paying, at minimum, $2 million for it?

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on April 5, 2012 at 10:04am

Wait just a minute here, folks. If someone is going to start asserting that a Chicago street has been/is to be sold to a private purchaser for a $2 million sum of money, I think it is incumbent upon them to point us to a cite in the City Council Journal or to the appropriate alderman's office.  

Duppie said:

Because it would kill any future plans for a bike/pedestrian bridge over the river at Roscoe?

Because it is a public access point to the river?

Because it is the northernmost exit point for a river trail?



tj said:

Why not turn it over to WMS and make it their problem - especially when they are paying, at minimum, $2 million for it?

Permalink Reply by Night Owl on April 5, 2012 at 10:15am

I've got nothing for you in terms of on-the-record sources, but I work in the field and these are the things I hear.  It'll happen.

Permalink Reply by Kevin C Dormant on April 5, 2012 at 10:23am

So the topic of discussion is how to better do something that hasn't been done yet and may or may not ever be done? I'm out. Talk amongst yourselves.

tj said:

I've got nothing for you in terms of on-the-record sources, but I work in the field and these are the things I hear.  It'll happen.

Permalink Reply by Thunder Snow on April 5, 2012 at 10:29am

Ya wanna buy a street?  No problemo!!  Dis is Chicagah, baby!

Permalink Reply by Bill donahue on April 7, 2012 at 10:17am

I am President of the Advisory Council, within which "the garden" is located.  We are officially opposed to the construction of the large boat warehouse.  The first reason that comes to mind is that these large 23' skulls could be stored anywhere - taking up about 2 acres of green space in an otherwise very open park is a poor use of the public land.  It would invite more vehicle traffic into the park, be located in the heart of this park and may even cast a shadow, which is not a good thing for the surrounding plant life, or people for that matter, who like open green space and unobstructed sight lines to the river!  The re - directed river front trail would then cross a driveway within the park.  

No, the development does not directly encroach upon the woods and the BMX tracks aka, "the garden", but we have found the BMX people to be staunch environmentalists, recycling everything, cleaning up the woods and building many feet of interesting trails throughout the woods, framed by rough hewn homeade fencing!  It is hoped that they will also be an advocate for open, green space in the park. 

The advisory council was originally presented with a much smaller building by the City of Chicago Department of Planning, in November of 2011, there is a description and photo of this building on our website and facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/ClarkParkAdvisoryCouncil. The gist of it is - it is exactly what the community asked for at the park - a small building(4,000SF) to replace the metal containers currently on the riverbank to store canoes and kayaks; a storage area for BMX and park work supplies, a badly needed water source, bathrooms, a replacement for the yellow trailer in the park in a new concession stand, and a bike rental area.  This building was in the works. Then, without any notice or discussion, we were presented the plan for the huge Crew rowing facility and boat warehouse, which will physically dominate the park with a 20,000+ SF building footprint on 2 plus floors. The actual pad side with side walks, setbacks, driveways and the riverfront areas will make it much much larger.  Many of the boats stored in the facility would probably be used elsewhere, so why the need to use 2/3 of the building to store boats and take up valuable land in a community park? The community did not ask for this type of use and now we are being told that we must accept it - many of the user groups are private groups who will pay big fees for use, training and competitions.   Meanwhile, the advisory council had the idea that we were advocating for things which were needed and wanted by the community. 

Please check out the information online and we would appreciate your support. 

Permalink Reply by Casey Carnes on April 9, 2012 at 3:04am

Thanks Bill!  

I'm glad someone could give us some insight on the initial and counter-proposals so we can quit arguing over speculation.  

The plan from October '11 looks great and is something that I would love to see in the park.

Bill donahue said:

I am President of the Advisory Council, within which "the garden" is located.  We are officially opposed to the construction of the large boat warehouse.  The first reason that comes to mind is that these large 23' skulls could be stored anywhere - taking up about 2 acres of green space in an otherwise very open park is a poor use of the public land.  It would invite more vehicle traffic into the park, be located in the heart of this park and may even cast a shadow, which is not a good thing for the surrounding plant life, or people for that matter, who like open green space and unobstructed sight lines to the river!  The re - directed river front trail would then cross a driveway within the park.  

No, the development does not directly encroach upon the woods and the BMX tracks aka, "the garden", but we have found the BMX people to be staunch environmentalists, recycling everything, cleaning up the woods and building many feet of interesting trails throughout the woods, framed by rough hewn homeade fencing!  It is hoped that they will also be an advocate for open, green space in the park. 

The advisory council was originally presented with a much smaller building by the City of Chicago Department of Planning, in November of 2011, there is a description and photo of this building on our website and facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/ClarkParkAdvisoryCouncil. The gist of it is - it is exactly what the community asked for at the park - a small building(4,000SF) to replace the metal containers currently on the riverbank to store canoes and kayaks; a storage area for BMX and park work supplies, a badly needed water source, bathrooms, a replacement for the yellow trailer in the park in a new concession stand, and a bike rental area.  This building was in the works. Then, without any notice or discussion, we were presented the plan for the huge Crew rowing facility and boat warehouse, which will physically dominate the park with a 20,000+ SF building footprint on 2 plus floors. The actual pad side with side walks, setbacks, driveways and the riverfront areas will make it much much larger.  Many of the boats stored in the facility would probably be used elsewhere, so why the need to use 2/3 of the building to store boats and take up valuable land in a community park? The community did not ask for this type of use and now we are being told that we must accept it - many of the user groups are private groups who will pay big fees for use, training and competitions.   Meanwhile, the advisory council had the idea that we were advocating for things which were needed and wanted by the community. 

Please check out the information online and we would appreciate your support. 

Permalink Reply by Tim S on April 9, 2012 at 5:04am

Bill thank you for finally stepping in and providing a little more information, while it addresses some of the outright lies a few have been spreading on-line to gain signatures it still falls short IMO. Feel free to use the Google Map/Boathouse plan overlay I made and emailed some of your supporters as it is easier to read than the "2nd proposal" .pdf on the FB page.

What is the problem if the boats are used elsewhere in order to compete they do need to travel, no?

It could also open up new avenues for  Lane and Gordon Tech offering a new opportunity for a sport that none had thought of before.

Not quite sure how building a new facility to encourage people to use the park and river not a green initiative.

With an indoor training facility it makes the park a year round destination and will probably increase security for the space.

It removes the trailer storage situation by offering a proper storage facility for the Kayak and BMX groups while bringing in a new group. 

Big fee's for training and competition... sounds like a win for the city and park system.

Our Chicago River has been underutilized for decades I applaud the City for coming up with this bold 4 Boat House plan.

Permalink Reply by Bill donahue on April 9, 2012 at 5:20am

Hello, the facebook link providing the details that we have, is provided towards the beginning of my post. 

I am not an expert on rowing by any means, if fact we have never seen any rowing on this stretch of the river.  It may be very suitable, but we have not seen rowing, only the existing use as a public canoe and kayak launch and boats from the busy canoe and kayak vendor on site.  We also feel that the new rowing operation would inhibit the canoe/kayak vendor in terms of hours and access to the river, not to mention the public access with their own boats.

The park district has told us that approximately 50 23' skulls will be stored in this facility. It is hard to imagine, just knowing how many people it takes to operate one craft, that you would have several hundreds of people on the river at a time, with the length and the oar width of these boats. Something says to me that the boats will be stored here and frequently used elsewhere, or worse may be "rented" by private groups and used by different sets of private users when they have an event at Clark Park.  This would truly make this facility, 2/3 of which is to be used for boat storage, as a private boat warehouse no matter where the craft are put in the water.

We feel that this neighborhood park would be better served by a smaller boathouse to serve the needs of those currently using the river at this location.  It would also retain more of the natural gardens and improvements the community has worked so hard to install.  What we have consistently asked for at this park is better maintenance, so when we try for months to get a deep hole in the parking lot repaired, find additional trash cans, or remove a tree at the edge of the woods(still there now for 4 months), or remove a 2 ton rusting metal sled at the edge of the river walk(still there after 5 years), or install a new fencing piece, (missing for one year), we are told the park district has no money and no personnel to do this but, "another work order as been put in", it is disengenuous and shocking that the park district would inform the community that there is (9) Nine Million Dollars available to put in a fancy rowing boathouse in the park.  Also, we have been advocating for several years to put in a playground at the park to accomodate the exploding baby boom in the area, but were told that a playground on the land west of Rockwell could not be built because the land is technically owned by the sanitary district and leased by the park district.  Then, Voila!!  a boathouse can overcome all of these minor technicalities, but the kids of the neighborhood are not worthy of this legal maneuver.

Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on April 10, 2012 at 11:23am

Hi Tim,

I'm Bill Barnes, the treasurer of the (Richard) Clark Park Advisory Council.  We've been working with the community for eighteen years now to develop a plan for the park that most benefits the entire community.  I'm a bit confused by your enthusiastic support for a project we feel will be a disaster for the park.  If you are having trouble reading Bill Donohue's pdf plan, guess what?  That's all the Park District gave us.

I don't know who is spreading "lies" about the boat house, but I do know that replacing grass with 2 acres on concrete is not green and not good for the environment.  Want to know why?

http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/albedo.html

All the asphalt and concrete we put down is trashing the Earth.

Most of this boat house will be used by private clubs and not accessible to the public.  How does that benefit the public?  Oh and by the way, schools due not support water sports on the river due to liability issues.  So forget about Lane and Gordon jumping into this.

The canoe and kayak venue will be diminished because they will not be allowed to do so when they are rowing.  That's what Bob Foster, the project manager told us.

Yes the river is under utilized but realize that since 1994 when they upgraded it from toxic to polluted the rating has not changed.  It is still polluted, dirty water.  So much for utilization.  Want to go for a swim?

And applauding big fees for the City and the CPD?  Come on, we've been trying for years to get them to provide bicycle racks and been told they have no money.

I suggest you look at the minutes of that last CPD Board of Commissioners meeting.

http://www.chicagoparkdistrict.com/departments/board-of-commissione...

March 14th meeting.  I didn't see you there.  Oh that's right we don't even know your last name.

So while you are championing a cause that "seems" right to you and critical of the Advisory Council, I suggest you come to a meeting of ours and voice your opinions there.  We meet every third Tuesday at Revere Park at 7PM.  And please...learn the facts.



Tim S said:

Bill thank you for finally stepping in and providing a little more information, while it addresses some of the outright lies a few have been spreading on-line to gain signatures it still falls short IMO. Feel free to use the Google Map/Boathouse plan overlay I made and emailed some of your supporters as it is easier to read than the "2nd proposal" .pdf on the FB page.

What is the problem if the boats are used elsewhere in order to compete they do need to travel, no?

It could also open up new avenues for  Lane and Gordon Tech offering a new opportunity for a sport that none had thought of before.

Not quite sure how building a new facility to encourage people to use the park and river not a green initiative.

With an indoor training facility it makes the park a year round destination and will probably increase security for the space.

It removes the trailer storage situation by offering a proper storage facility for the Kayak and BMX groups while bringing in a new group. 

Big fee's for training and competition... sounds like a win for the city and park system.

Our Chicago River has been underutilized for decades I applaud the City for coming up with this bold 4 Boat House plan.

Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on April 10, 2012 at 1:53pm

This picture is a photoshop dummy.  It was done by Jeanne Gangs bunch.  Where's Devry and the Lane Tech Stadium?

Tim S said:

I have seen some of the proposal and it is no where near as dire (IMHO) as they make it out to be. We were at the park for a FFR and all i could think was "What a great place for a boat house."

Please note THE BMX TRAIL WILL NOT BE REMOVED. Looks like a great addition to the park to me. There was a poster on another site pushing the ban and it took me a month to get this picture.

Permalink Reply by Bill Barnes on April 10, 2012 at 2:47pm

Cameron-  Thanks for your comments.  I wasn't attacking Tim "S" as much to point out some fundamental issues like what constitutes greenspace and why it's important.  Please understand that what we are saying has been told to us directly from Park District planners.  Most of the boat house will be for crew boat storage and not accessible.  That is a fact.  If you doubt me, then call Bob Foster the project manager.  His assistant Stefan told us this at our February meeting.  Erma Tranter, President of Friends of the Parks was there.  Call Her. She's easier to reach.  What alarms us most is how secretive the Park District has been about this whole thing.  Bob Foster confessed at a private meeting with us that we are getting the rowing house because another park did not want it.  We don't either.  It's way to big for our tiny park.  And it will destroy three improvements (however unnoticed) that we've made to the park including indigenous plantings made near the canoe launch which is what I think they were referring to as the garden.

Again like I said to Tim.  Instead of criticizing us with opinions, why don't you come to our meetings and get involved.  We always welcome new faces.

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