The Chainlink

de-icing/salting oak street curve

Does anyone know whom to call to attempt to get the path salted at the Oak Street Curve?

 It's annoying that I ride the entire north branch of the path and spend a disproportionately long amount of time traversing 150 yards of ice at the curve. 

Today was my first time back to work and this is my first year taking that route daily so I'm not familiar with how often that section is iced over.  It seems to me it's a lawsuit waiting to happen as it is ice from the lake all the way to the inner wall at the roadway.  With the sloping grade and the smoothness of the ice, I don't think it's inconceivable that someone could slip and fall and slide all the way into the lake.

I understand that most "sane" people wouldn't ride in this weather so my complaint only has so much room to run/ride, but I have no problem with the cold, just the ice.  As Rahm and Gabe are publicly promoting bicycling as transportation in Chicago, shouldn't the crown jewel of a transportation thoroughfare be made navigable, if even with typical half-assery?

I would like to see concrete, highway construction barriers put in temporarily along that curve at the line separating the concrete near the lake from the newly repaved asphalt.  Even if that didn't prevent all the water from splashing up and forming the ice on the path, it would provide a physical barrier to hit before falling into the lake if one were to slip and fall.

In the city that works, with a Streets and Sanitation department with a thirst for overtime, am I unrealistic in thinking that this should be and easy and obvious fix?

Views: 681

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Dirke on January 3, 2012 at 2:01pm

Thanks for helpful replies.  What I was aiming for was finding a link to someone with a sympathetic ear and a trigger finger in the depths of city government.  I don't frequent this site/blog much but remember reading at some point in the fall about someone who bitched about the 3" lips at the edges of the bridge on the path, south of the Navy Pier bridge over the river, and lo and behold, it got fixed within a day, after having been a potentially dangerous nuisance that destroyed countless rims for at least two years.

That was just a quality-of-life detail and it got fixed quickly when someone made someone (with the power to do something about it) aware of it.

This situation, as discussed, has the potential to end someone's life in a horrible way, and is similarly preventable with a small investment in time and some temporary materials.  If someone on this board could find that thread or forward the relevant contact information, I'll take it from there.  Thanks again for helpful suggestions and not just recommending avoidance.

Permalink Reply by Mark on January 3, 2012 at 2:04pm

The Chicago Park District has not plowed or salted this stretch of the LFT for several years, ever since they almost lost a vehicle into the lake in trying to do so.  A long-term solution is planned to build a cantilevered trail jutting out from LSD which would be done as part of a complete rehab of LSD which would also include semi-straightening out the curve at Oak Street.

We've been lucky this winter to make it to New Year's without any real snow or ice there.  Last winter, large sections of the trail were decimated by an ice storm in early December, taking out large chunks of asphalt that didn't get repaired until Memorial Day.   I took the inner drive from Oak to Chicago this morning, but I also have alternate routes from North Avenue and Fullerton. 

Permalink Reply by Dirke on January 3, 2012 at 3:01pm

Cameron,

That indeed was the discussion on Chainlink, thanks for finding.  But alas, the heroine for that one was not in the thread.  I don't remember where I read about that one but a specific female of the region found a voice and I think was solely responsible for the fix.  I used to be "more-unemployed" and read some blog somewhere where the young lady made some calls, sent some pictures and emails, and it was fixed within 48 hours.  It may have been a link from a link from a Tribune article.

  I understand the difference in situations between that and this but since that situation is the only one of which I'm aware that a citizen/user made a complaint and had it addressed, I thought it would be worthwhile to bark up the same tree.  Maybe that successful, concerned citizen will come across this thread sometime this winter and provide the needed enlightenment.  That's my hope anyway.  In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on the area and avoid if icy.  I have studded tires that would make it through that section while laughing at it but they're too heavy to install when that little section is the only one I can't avoid at all if taking the LF path.

Permalink Reply by Poptart on January 6, 2012 at 11:30am

Man I saw a guy bust it hard at the curve this morning and take a "sliding into home" type adventure out on the ice sheet, so glad he didn't have the momentum to make it all the way out to the water. First time back down there in like two weeks. I think I will be sticking to my street route. Don't let the temp fool ya, its still nasty at the corner.  

Permalink Reply by Shelley Scott on January 6, 2012 at 11:45am

I too took the path for the first time in a few weeks (was getting tired of taking the city streets), and you still have to take the dirt path at Fullerton, and there is still a mini-glacier at Oak Street. It is clear of ice close to the water, so as long as you walk your bike a bit it's pretty safe. I was in awe of a couple cyclists I saw who rode right over the ice with no problem--ice and gravity are a brutal mix for me. :o)

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 6, 2012 at 11:53am

I really don't think you understand the engineering significance of this project.  

While it seems like a small segment of sidewalk, it is not possible to simply salt this area to remove ice.  There is simply too much water that is continuously washed up onto the path here.  It is a complicated project and even when a solution is designed, it would take several months to construct (during the summer) vs closing this segment during the winter when its use is limited.  It would cost the city/army corp a lot of money. 

I would rather the city spend its resources creating a viable alternate route with protected lanes on inner lake shore drive and a proper connection back to the path where inner lake shore drive ends. This would cost the city significantly less and allow a safe path around the area.   


Dirke said:

Cameron,

That indeed was the discussion on Chainlink, thanks for finding.  But alas, the heroine for that one was not in the thread.  I don't remember where I read about that one but a specific female of the region found a voice and I think was solely responsible for the fix.  I used to be "more-unemployed" and read some blog somewhere where the young lady made some calls, sent some pictures and emails, and it was fixed within 48 hours.  It may have been a link from a link from a Tribune article.

  I understand the difference in situations between that and this but since that situation is the only one of which I'm aware that a citizen/user made a complaint and had it addressed, I thought it would be worthwhile to bark up the same tree.  Maybe that successful, concerned citizen will come across this thread sometime this winter and provide the needed enlightenment.  That's my hope anyway.  In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on the area and avoid if icy.  I have studded tires that would make it through that section while laughing at it but they're too heavy to install when that little section is the only one I can't avoid at all if taking the LF path.

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 6, 2012 at 12:04pm

Here is my alternate suggestion to modifying the path in this area.  I think this would be a more cost effective solution.

Attachments:
Permalink Reply by S on January 6, 2012 at 1:21pm

I think if the city/corp were going to fix things, it might end up being more cost effective to just add a seawall or extending the existing one a bit further to stop incoming waves.  It still wouldn't be cheap and frankly I don't see that happening anytime soon.

Liz said:

I really don't think you understand the engineering significance of this project.  

While it seems like a small segment of sidewalk, it is not possible to simply salt this area to remove ice.  There is simply too much water that is continuously washed up onto the path here.  It is a complicated project and even when a solution is designed, it would take several months to construct (during the summer) vs closing this segment during the winter when its use is limited.  It would cost the city/army corp a lot of money. 

I would rather the city spend its resources creating a viable alternate route with protected lanes on inner lake shore drive and a proper connection back to the path where inner lake shore drive ends. This would cost the city significantly less and allow a safe path around the area.   


Dirke said:

Cameron,

That indeed was the discussion on Chainlink, thanks for finding.  But alas, the heroine for that one was not in the thread.  I don't remember where I read about that one but a specific female of the region found a voice and I think was solely responsible for the fix.  I used to be "more-unemployed" and read some blog somewhere where the young lady made some calls, sent some pictures and emails, and it was fixed within 48 hours.  It may have been a link from a link from a Tribune article.

  I understand the difference in situations between that and this but since that situation is the only one of which I'm aware that a citizen/user made a complaint and had it addressed, I thought it would be worthwhile to bark up the same tree.  Maybe that successful, concerned citizen will come across this thread sometime this winter and provide the needed enlightenment.  That's my hope anyway.  In the meantime, I'll keep an eye on the area and avoid if icy.  I have studded tires that would make it through that section while laughing at it but they're too heavy to install when that little section is the only one I can't avoid at all if taking the LF path.

Permalink Reply by Dirke on January 6, 2012 at 1:28pm

Liz, I am not an engineer, nor an urban planner, so my pondering is exactly that.  If you have more substantial credentials, then I can't say much more.  But I have read that the Kinzie bike lane, which is hated by all motorists, cost $140K for .5 mile.  The section of roadway you indicate with a connection back to the LFP is at least half again as long.  Let's round up (this is crook county after all) to $200K, the approximate cost to execute your suggestion.

You're telling me that all the money, effort, and political wrangling, not to mention the ire of the majority of citizens who happen to be in cars at that part of the city, is less expensive, and preferable to throwing down some concrete barriers and sand bags for a few months of the year?  I understand that a significant amount of water flows over that curve and efforts to control the lake can be futile, but I still think a small chain of concrete barriers along the lake edge would do a world of good, and be FAR less expensive than any sort of permanent flyover or lane separation of the inner drive.  Outside of the icy months, I actually enjoy trying to time the wave action to be able ride through that area as waves come up as far as the drive wall and flow back out.  It's more of a nuisance or "exciting section" 9 months of the year depending on one's disposition.  During this point of the year, it's potentially deadly, and I think should be dealt with.

Liz said:

Here is my alternate suggestion to modifying the path in this area.  I think this would be a more cost effective solution.

Permalink Reply by JeffB on January 6, 2012 at 2:14pm

Look at how much salt they've dumped on the path just south of the bridge over the river.  If they'd done that three days ago at Oak St. (after the waves were no longer spilling over the curve) we would have had at least a narrow path that was clear of ice.  They don't even need to bring equipment onto the path or cover the entire concrete area; just get a road crew to stand above the path on LSD and dump salt along the upper edge.  It would take 30 minutes.  Most of that area is consistently shaded, so even after 3 days of above freezing temps, with no salt, the ice remains.  We don't need infrastructure changes (although that would be nice), we just need some salt.

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 6, 2012 at 2:17pm

From my experience (BS & MS in civil engineering, working as a structural engineer for 5+ years and 3 years in a public works department)...


A handrail would be possible to prevent someone from sliding in, it would not stop the waves from hitting that trail (the waves are often well over the wall height).  Creating an impermiable (ie totally concrete and sandbagged) wall would only act as a trap for even more water and ice (i.e. the ice layer would be thicker).  If the rail was permeable (gaps or metal) it would allow the water to flow as it currently does, but it would not reduce the amount of icing that is currently occuring. 

Modifying this area to eliminate icing would cost in my estimate over $1 million dollars.  This is much less than $200k (which is a drop in the bucket when it comes to transportation funding). 

Our society really tends to underestimate how much time, effort and money went into even the most basic things we use everyday.  I am never surprised at how much time I spend spelling out small details or clarifying construction sequences for something that many people would consider routine. 

Dirke said:

Liz, I am not an engineer, nor an urban planner, so my pondering is exactly that.  If you have more substantial credentials, then I can't say much more.  But I have read that the Kinzie bike lane, which is hated by all motorists, cost $140K for .5 mile.  The section of roadway you indicate with a connection back to the LFP is at least half again as long.  Let's round up (this is crook county after all) to $200K, the approximate cost to execute your suggestion.

You're telling me that all the money, effort, and political wrangling, not to mention the ire of the majority of citizens who happen to be in cars at that part of the city, is less expensive, and preferable to throwing down some concrete barriers and sand bags for a few months of the year?  I understand that a significant amount of water flows over that curve and efforts to control the lake can be futile, but I still think a small chain of concrete barriers along the lake edge would do a world of good, and be FAR less expensive than any sort of permanent flyover or lane separation of the inner drive.  Outside of the icy months, I actually enjoy trying to time the wave action to be able ride through that area as waves come up as far as the drive wall and flow back out.  It's more of a nuisance or "exciting section" 9 months of the year depending on one's disposition.  During this point of the year, it's potentially deadly, and I think should be dealt with.

Liz said:

Here is my alternate suggestion to modifying the path in this area.  I think this would be a more cost effective solution.

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 6, 2012 at 2:34pm

This link is really a good resource to understand how much construction work costs per mile when people complain about the cost of the Kinzie bike way. 

ftp://ftp.dot.state.fl.us/LTS/CO/Estimates/CPM/summary.pdf

RSS

Groups

© 2008-2016   The Chainlink Community, L.L.C.   Powered by

Disclaimer  |  Report an Issue  |  Terms of Service