Hey Chainlink, know what I think is lame?

When a website that claims to be promoting local cycling in the city of Chicago has a banner ad for a site which is one of the many internet discount outlets that make it hard for local bike shops.

Way to go Chainlink, bravo.  Is the advertising dollar worth making things harder on the local shops here in Chicago?

Is this site about serving the local community or is it about being a profit center for it's owner?

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Permalink Reply by Vondo on January 2, 2012 at 10:54am

I don't see the big deal about Dug or anyone else posting about stuff going on at their shops. In fact, I think that's a good thing for a site that makes information available to the cycling community. I'm glad he did post about the wheel building special, I probably wouldn't have found out about it otherwise. I'm definitely going to get some wheels built.

Permalink Reply by Joel on January 2, 2012 at 11:01am

Having local shops post stuff isn't a problem, it is the attitude from Doug.  If local shops would provide the support for the site, there wouldn't be the need for online retailer advertisements.  As it stands, there apparently isn't enough support from the local community so other sources are needed.  Instead, Doug complains that the site runs ads he doesn't like, while neither he nor his shop of choice/employment are supporting it.   

h' said:

Not sure what the problem is with Doug or anyone else posting about what's going on at their shops.

Frankly it baffles me that more shop folks don't weigh in on the various topics, or speak up when someone is looking for something to say they have it-- especially this time of year when things are slow at the shop. Thanks to those who do.

If there is now an expectation that one would be obligated to pay to post things like the wheel building special (which I hope there isn't), it needs to be clearly stated.


Joel said:

So you work for a company that doesn't pay you enough to support this site, and the company doesn't support this site; yet you complain that the site gets support from others?  Maybe if local companies were willing to provide support they wouldn't rely on other places for it.  

But why would you or your company provide financial support for a local cycling website when you can post everything for free anyway?  


notoriousDUG said:

I don't get to decide where Rapid sends it's money and, as I said before, I would be saying this stuff regardless of me working in a shop or not.  I have been pushing local bike shops over online shops for as long as I have been a member here.

I'd like to donate here, and a lot of other places, but have you seen what they pay bike shop employees?

Permalink Reply by Zoetrope on January 2, 2012 at 11:02am

I don't either, and that's not anyone's issue here.  It's just people pointing out blatant hypocrisy.  Employee's and owners posting happenings or sales is one of the reasons I like this place as much as I do.  It'd be really hard to have a heads up on such a wide variety of goings-on without this place.

Vando said:

I don't see the big deal about Dug or anyone else posting about stuff going on at their shops. In fact, I think that's a good thing for a site that makes information available to the cycling community. I'm glad he did post about the wheel building special, I probably wouldn't have found out about it otherwise. I'm definitely going to get some wheels built.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 2, 2012 at 12:09pm

The reason people from shops do not post much is because it ends up with something like this,  In fact up until recently, because it appeared you and others wanted to hear from people in shops, I tried to avoid making it known I worked at a bike shop for a variety of reasons.

If I were just some a-hole with a bike this thread would not have exploded to anywhere near the degree that it has.

h' said:

Not sure what the problem is with Doug or anyone else posting about what's going on at their shops.

Frankly it baffles me that more shop folks don't weigh in on the various topics, or speak up when someone is looking for something to say they have it-- especially this time of year when things are slow at the shop. Thanks to those who do.

If there is now an expectation that one would be obligated to pay to post things like the wheel building special (which I hope there isn't), it needs to be clearly stated.


Joel said:

So you work for a company that doesn't pay you enough to support this site, and the company doesn't support this site; yet you complain that the site gets support from others?  Maybe if local companies were willing to provide support they wouldn't rely on other places for it.  

But why would you or your company provide financial support for a local cycling website when you can post everything for free anyway?  


notoriousDUG said:

I don't get to decide where Rapid sends it's money and, as I said before, I would be saying this stuff regardless of me working in a shop or not.  I have been pushing local bike shops over online shops for as long as I have been a member here.

I'd like to donate here, and a lot of other places, but have you seen what they pay bike shop employees?

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 2, 2012 at 12:09pm

What hypocrisy?

Brendan said:

I don't either, and that's not anyone's issue here.  It's just people pointing out blatant hypocrisy.  Employee's and owners posting happenings or sales is one of the reasons I like this place as much as I do.  It'd be really hard to have a heads up on such a wide variety of goings-on without this place.

Vando said:

I don't see the big deal about Dug or anyone else posting about stuff going on at their shops. In fact, I think that's a good thing for a site that makes information available to the cycling community. I'm glad he did post about the wheel building special, I probably wouldn't have found out about it otherwise. I'm definitely going to get some wheels built.

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 2, 2012 at 12:16pm

I actually make a competitive wage for a bike mechanic; it's sadly not an industry that pays well and there is no sign of that getting better anytime soon.

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

If I worked at a coffee shop, auto shop or sat at home on the public dole I would have made exactly the same post.  My feelings on this subject have been the same for several years before I ever worked at a bike shop.

Joel said:

So you work for a company that doesn't pay you enough to support this site, and the company doesn't support this site; yet you complain that the site gets support from others?  Maybe if local companies were willing to provide support they wouldn't rely on other places for it.  

But why would you or your company provide financial support for a local cycling website when you can post everything for free anyway?  


notoriousDUG said:

I don't get to decide where Rapid sends it's money and, as I said before, I would be saying this stuff regardless of me working in a shop or not.  I have been pushing local bike shops over online shops for as long as I have been a member here.

I'd like to donate here, and a lot of other places, but have you seen what they pay bike shop employees?

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 2, 2012 at 12:42pm

I agree 100% but it can really suck when, as a shop owner or employee, try to participate.  All of a sudden everything you say or do becomes associated with the shop you work at.  Your association with a shop colors everyone's opinions and reactions regarding what you say.

h' said:

Speaking only for myself, here's where I'm coming from on this:

1) If chainlink is going to be successful, it's going to have to be a central and dominant online meeting place for most if not all of the Chicago cycling community.

2) A central online meeting place would need to include a significant presence from all corners of the Chicago cycling world-- utility cyclists, recreational cyclists, advocates, advocacy organizations, retailers, manufacturers, event planners, infrastructure planners/government representatives, bike-friendly business owners, etc.
3) If the shop folks are not at the table the chance of this site succeeding lessens significantly.

All of the above applies independently of any definition of success tied to generation of monetary revenue.

Once you embark upon a goal to make this site monetarily profitable, you turn up the heat on the need to be as encompassing of the Chicago bike community as possible-- Chicago is a large city but it remains to be seen whether it presents a large enough pool of interested users/supporters for commercial viability, given the relatively small subset of its population being targeted here.  I think you'd need to try to capture as near 100% of that population as absolutely possible to have a fighting chance.

I would also just like to have an easy way of locating goods and services in local shops :-)


notoriousDUG said:

because it appeared you and others wanted to hear from people in shops

Permalink Reply by Adam "Cezar" Jenkins on January 2, 2012 at 1:06pm

I have to state that I agree with your points. I also think it's fair that you brought it up.

I just think they could have been stated civilly. If I were Julie, I couldn't take you seriously because of the level of rudeness in the remark. Regardless of it's actual statement or fact.

Someplace like The Chainlink isn't the same as any online forum. People know each other in real life. For a while, I've try to speak on here as if I were talking to others face to face. It's important to retain civility. I have to ask myself when I post, how would I act if someone said something like that to my face? 

notoriousDUG said:

Sorry you feel that way but I have never in the past gotten a much in the way of a response when trying to talk to Julie directly.

Adam "Cezar" Jenkins said:

I understand your sentiment Dug, but the way you said it was assholish and trollish. It's full of anger, sarcasm, and unfair accusations. 

I had thought better of you. I really did.

I think you owe an apology to Julie. You could have emailed her and asked instead of trolling your way about it. I think she would have changed it for you, or eased your concerns. Even publicly you could have been tactful about it, but you weren't, you were and ass.

I am seriously disappointed in you.

Permalink Reply by Joel on January 2, 2012 at 1:42pm

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

Permalink Reply by Ace Mann on January 2, 2012 at 1:51pm
So you put up a post of discount wheel build from your shop, basically a free advert and your shop doesn't even advertise on the site.You want free advertisement for your stuff by having Julie subsidize it out of her own pocket.Maybe if more LBS advertised on the site.She wouldn't need national advertisements.
Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on January 2, 2012 at 1:53pm

Joel, do you even know me beyond this forum?  Are you under the impression that I just sit on my hands at home and do nothing to help anyone?  I've spent a lot of time volunteering for various organizations and spent time working more than a few bike events the last few years.  Just because you haven't seen it does not mean I'm not doing anything to help.

Julie has done a lot but I think saying that she has done more than anyone else is very possibly a stretch.  I'm not trying to marginalize anything she has done but I think that there are organizations who have been around much longer and done much more.



Joel said:

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

Permalink Reply by Joel on January 2, 2012 at 1:56pm

It was probably a stretch to say she has done more than anyone you know.  If you are happy to volunteer for other cycling things, why don't you think of a constructive way to solve what you see as a problem?  

notoriousDUG said:

Joel, do you even know me beyond this forum?  Are you under the impression that I just sit on my hands at home and do nothing to help anyone?  I've spent a lot of time volunteering for various organizations and spent time working more than a few bike events the last few years.  Just because you haven't seen it does not mean I'm not doing anything to help.

Julie has done a lot but I think saying that she has done more than anyone else is very possibly a stretch.  I'm not trying to marginalize anything she has done but I think that there are organizations who have been around much longer and done much more.



Joel said:

No, I got that part.  I also understand your initial concern.  What I don't understand is calling out someone that has done more for Chicago cycling than anyone else you know while offering absolutely nothing yourself.  The site costs money.  Julie's time is worth something.  The money needs to come from somewhere.  It is just a matter of where.

Maybe instead of just complaining about who pays for the free service you use every day, you could offer some useful direction.  Do you know of local companies that could advertise here (not just where you work)?  Do you know people willing to donate?  Could you run a fundraiser?  People probably wouldn't have jumped on you if you had any positive contribution -- any workable idea on how to make this a fully local site.  Instead you come across as a whiney ass who complains about something they get for free.



notoriousDUG said:

I am going to say this again, and in bold, for those of you who seem unable or unwilling to read and acknowledge it:

MY OPINION ON THIS MATTER HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH MY EMPLOYMENT AT A BIKE SHOP!!!

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