Milwaukee v. Elston
This may have already been discussed but nothing came up in my search anyway:
I typically take Elston on my commute from Skokie to the Medical District but decided to try Milwaukee Ave. this morning since so many bikers use it. I really don't get it, because to me Elston seems much wider, there is a dedicated bike lane (for whatever that's worth at times) not a sharrowed lane which Milwaukee seems to primarily be, the road surface on Elston is much better, no bus traffic, there is no construction now (several spots on Milwaukee), Elston doesn't have to deal with people getting to the CTA train stations or onto the highway (almost right hooked there this morning), less traffic early in the morning and fewer stop lights/sings to deal with.
Please enlighten me as to why everyone prefers Milwaukee. I usually don't see other bike commuters on Elston in the morning (granted I'm riding between 5 and 6 am) whereas I saw at least 6 headed toward downtown this morning.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on
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Well done Steve.
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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on
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That is a great photo tour of why Elston is not that hot.
I usually don't use it because of the area around the Target being a zoo and the intersection at Ashland being a giant shit show of pissed off drivers.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Even walking in the area around target is pretty terrifying.
I find it to have a much more suburban feel than much of the rest of the city.
notoriousDUG said:
That is a great photo tour of why Elston is not that hot.
I usually don't use it because of the area around the Target being a zoo and the intersection at Ashland being a giant shit show of pissed off drivers.
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I actually referred to that area as a suburb of Logan Square the other day in conversation; it's like visiting my parents in the 'burbs.
I avoid the area but you have to hit the Target and the mega-grocery from time to time.
Liz said:Even walking in the area around target is pretty terrifying.
I find it to have a much more suburban feel than much of the rest of the city.
notoriousDUG said:
That is a great photo tour of why Elston is not that hot.
I usually don't use it because of the area around the Target being a zoo and the intersection at Ashland being a giant shit show of pissed off drivers.
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I hate Target. It's nasty. Almost every time I go in there I am disappointed that they don't have what I'm looking for. The place is worse than Kmart. The grocery across the street Van der dur dar vonklomp borkborkork whatever it is called is no good either. I used to like it back when it was a Cub before it closed a few years back. Now I ride even further East to Dominicks. I miss living in Madison and having a Woodman's. I wish there was a Woodman's in the Chicago area.
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Permalink Reply by Anne Alt on
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Those photos tell the tale very effectively.
Steven Vance said:
I decided to tell you what I dislike about Elston in a photo essay, but first let me describe my "typical commute."
I moved to Avondale, near Belmont/Elston/California. Elston is about 500 feet from my house. Milwaukee is a little less than 1 mile away. I much prefer riding down California to hop on Milwaukee towards downtown, UIC, and Pilsen (my most frequent haunts).
Each photo describes one reason why I dislike Elston and what you're seeing in the photo.
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Permalink Reply by Joe Byrd on
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I think the photo essay explains a bit about why I choose Elston. I ride my son to Whitney Young once a weekon a burley duet tandem from Albany Park around 6am and so this means 2 things - less car traffic and an easily attainable 18-20mph. I agree with all the cons described in the photo essay, especially with the right turn cars while coming north, but they represent to me the "hypervigilant" parts of the ride, whereas on Milwaukee, it's much more random and stress producing with a much higher number of near misses. We used to take Elston to Damen to Jackson? to get to Whitney but the section of Damen from Fullerton to Chicago is one of my least favorite streets in Chicago where we just have to slow down to a crawl of 12-14 mph because of the pedestrians that just step out into the bike lane without a look or thought. I know that we are in a little different place on a tandem because it makes the velocity discrepancy between you and the cars overtaking you lower and it also makes you much more concerned with the potential for doing serious damage to a pedestrian, the road bike with person at 180 pounds going 15 mph that hits the spaced out pedestrian is one thing, but the tandem at 350 pounds going 20 mph has almost 3 times the momentum when it crashes into that scenester pulverizing bones to mush. Sorry to be so long winded, but that why we take Elston. If you see a tandem with Tidy Cat panniers be sure to give us a shout
Steven Vance said:
I decided to tell you what I dislike about Elston in a photo essay, but first let me describe my "typical commute."
I moved to Avondale, near Belmont/Elston/California. Elston is about 500 feet from my house. Milwaukee is a little less than 1 mile away. I much prefer riding down California to hop on Milwaukee towards downtown, UIC, and Pilsen (my most frequent haunts).
Each photo describes one reason why I dislike Elston and what you're seeing in the photo.
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Permalink Reply by BikeBoy5 on
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Everyone should stay on Milwaukee Ave. Everything negative said about Elston is spot on. Cars too fast, boring scenery, zig-zag bike lane...it really sucks! PLEASE everyone stay on Milwaukee. Western is good, too, as is Fullerton.
Leave Elston to we few, we happy few, we band of brothers (as sisters.)
Ashland/Elston is an adult dose so I just take Cortland to Damen during heavy traffic times
Discretion is the greater part of valor.
BikeBoy5
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I'm not sure how someone could be against riding on Elston but not Fullerton or Western.
I would ride on 7 miles on Elston every single day before I thought about riding 1 block on Fullerton or Wester.
There is a 1 miles strech of Elston that is dicey (Diversey to Ashland) and even that is so much better than Western or Fullerton.
Mark Beard-Witherup said:Everyone should stay on Milwaukee Ave. Everything negative said about Elston is spot on. Cars too fast, boring scenery, zig-zag bike lane...it really sucks! PLEASE everyone stay on Milwaukee. Western is good, too, as is Fullerton.
Leave Elston to we few, we happy few, we band of brothers (as sisters.)
Ashland/Elston is an adult dose so I just take Cortland to Damen during heavy traffic times
Discretion is the greater part of valor.
BikeBoy5
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Permalink Reply by Gort 12-mile Pinklegneep on
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Weirdly I find Milwaukee's narrowness makes it preferable during rush hour because cars are less able to move and are more predictable. Plus there's the whole safety in numbers feedback loop of choosing to bike it because a lot of people choose to bike it.
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I agree that Milwaukee's narrowness almost seems to act as a traffic-calming device, especially when bikes are present. Auto drivers are less-likely to try and treat it like a 4-lane raceway.
That said, there are a few places were I'd like to see the places where it temporarily expands to 4-lane removed and the right lane made into a bike and right-turn only lane that is CLEARLY MARKED with solid white lines.
One of the worst spots for this is the section that cuts through the circle of Logan Square proper. That area in the middle of the circle goes from 2 lanes to 4 for a few hundred yards and then back to 2 again at the other side. Cars use this area like it is a passing zone on the right lane and these inahurry cars push you right into the curbage with their buzzing with no thought at all for bikes. There is NO REASON this area needs to be 4 lanes as it is going right back to 2 again at the other side. The intersections at both sides of this the poorly-designed abortion of a traffic circle are bad enough as far as bike and ped traffic is concerned.
The only autos that should be in the right lane are those that are turning right and only just before the intersection.
A lot of Chicago drivers think it is perfectly OK to ram right down the "turning lane" just before an intersection and get by 3-5 cars as they approach a red light, and then as soon as the light changes slam the accelerator down and race forward to get in front of the cars to their left and go straight rather than turning. This is very dangerous to bikes in the bike lane waiting to legally cross the intersection that get caught up in this drag-racing type activity. This is one more reason I endorse the Idaho stop so we can get out there before the Indy 500 starts when the light does turn green.
The right lane should be for right-turning only. Those that are using it to get by slower traffic by passing on the right should be cited. This can only happen if the lanes are more clearly marked for bikes and right-turns only and it is enforced by the city.
That 4-lane section of Milwaukee at the corners of Logan/Kedzie need to be remarked as a bike-only lane and NOT a short crazy passing zone for people in a hurry to get in front of the person ahead of them only to get back in line again in single-file slow car traffic. What is the point of that anyhow? Also, the pavement on the Downtown side is so damn bad it is just crumbling like a month-old cookie and the cars push you right into that mess when they are attempting to make time in the "right" lane.
Not just Elston has bad spots. There are quite a few on Milwaukee too but this one is one of my pet peeves -and not just because I live 3 blocks from there.
Peenworm Grubologist said:Weirdly I find Milwaukee's narrowness makes it preferable during rush hour because cars are less able to move and are more predictable. Plus there's the whole safety in numbers feedback loop of choosing to bike it because a lot of people choose to bike it.
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Permalink Reply by Davo on
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If I'm infront of a person in a right turn only lane and they don't have on a turn signal, I make sure that I take up the whole lane. When the light turns green, I take my sweet time getting up to speed just so that guy has to wait.
A lot of Chicago drivers think it is perfectly OK to ram right down the "turning lane" just before an intersection and get by 3-5 cars as they approach a red light, and then as soon as the light changes slam the accelerator down and race forward to get in front of the cars to their left and go straight rather than turning. This is very dangerous to bikes in the bike lane waiting to legally cross the intersection that get caught up in this drag-racing type activity. This is one more reason I endorse the Idaho stop so we can get out there before the Indy 500 starts when the light does turn green.
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