Physically/Mentally Impaired Driving (was "Outsourcing Self Control")

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on January 5, 2011 at 8:34am

I'd rather there be links to docs that don't respect patient/client confidentiality and will report you to any government agency.  I'm sure I could use this information to make my own medical professional choices as well as pass this information on to other like-minded individuals.

 

I don't care if a doctor I uses rides a bicycle any more than I care about their skin color/ethnicity/sexual preference.  I only want to get what I'm paying for and not support a government rat.

 

Gabe said:

Sure, should i just post links to the rest of the docs that do subscribe? ;-)

Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on January 5, 2011 at 8:43am

The winking smiley! It's back!!!!!

Gabe said:

Sure, should i just post links to the rest of the docs that do subscribe? ;-)

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 9:29am

i'll show u my winky smiley :-)

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 5, 2011 at 9:40am

While I agree that there are probably some people who are given driving priveleges when they should have restrictions, its unfair to judge the entire group of disabled drivers without evidence that they would be more dangerous than able body drivers.  Persons who drive adapted cars due to physical disability do not have reduced reaction times, the mechanisms that control thier vehicles while slightly different, perform the same function and held to the same safety and manufacturing standards as the mechanisms that control any other vehicle.  No person (able bodied or not) driving a modern car has the full power of the vehicle in thier actual control, there are many instruments, controls and mechanisms that interperet the amount on turns a steering wheel or pressed a brake pedal.  As long as the reaction time of a disable individual with the controls that they are able to us, meets the requirements, there is no reason to deny someone the ability to drive.  Doing so would simply be bigoted.

 

If a person is not able to meet requirements and is able to obtain a license that is an enforcement and curruption issue.   It is a flawed system, but the potential for abuse should not restrtict the ability of an entire group to be granted driving priveledges.

 

Gabe said:

It's a fairly simple thing I've laid out. Driving should be done by the most physically capable. I don't see how that is a suspect statement? If driving by itself is dangerous (we're in agreement there I see) than why should we make it more so by allowing people with impairments to operate a 2 ton death machine? And i got a good laugh about bikes being dangerous. Really? When 2 bikes collide i think the odds of death are slightly lower than when 2 cars collide but i may be wrong.

 

And Milesper, Nope no doc here. But based on what you've told me I don't need to know more. The docs you are subscribing to are part of the same "everyone has a right to drive" culture. They don't have the right to drive. And if your mom gets tired from walking....oh wait i spelled that out already.

 

And Liz you are right, idiots keep getting dui's and are allowed to drive. But if we talk to Milesper and James it's cause they have the right too.

 

This brings everything back to the original topic. Technology. We are now creating technology to control the car for the driver because the driver can't be trusted to do so by his or herself? That seems like a band-aid on a hemorrhaging wound.

 

Ya know what's fun. We aren't far from the car that will drive itself for the handicapped person.

 

Permalink Reply by BalloonBiker on January 5, 2011 at 10:24am

By far the most common thing that I see being responsible for endangering me has been people on their cell phones.  While I can't generally tell when people are disabled in any way, I can usually tell when they are talking on their phone.

 

There are so many factors that contribute to unsafe driving.  An able-bodied person can be effected by sickness, drowsiness, distraction, alcohol.  It seems downright vitriolic to direct rage to a smaller subset of the driving population for something that may not even cause harm.

 

Liz is absolutely right in her reasoning about no person being in complete control of modern cars.

 

And doing away with handicapped parking?  Even if there were laws on the books to completely ban those folks from driving, they could still have caretakers drive them and would still require the facilities as passengers.

 

 

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 11:47am

i'm a raging bigoted facist troll. i can't wait for the business cards. :-)

the "modern" vehicles you r speaking of r the new ones where it will apply the break or slow down for u if something has happened. those are still only equipped in luxury vehicles. the vast majority of cars are in the drivers control. that argument is 10 years from being meaningful.

and we are talking about milliseconds of reaction time for a driver. and u r absolutely right when u say there are many factors. drowsiness, cell phone, etc... each one making the chance of an accident greater. so is the argument that a disabled person wont also talk on the phone and be sleepy? they r disabled and therefore already are starting out slower than an abled person (if they weren't at all slower they wouldn't be disabled). then those factors will only compound the issues they are dealing with.

Permalink Reply by Liz on January 5, 2011 at 11:51am

Um, clearly you have never driven a car without power steering or power braking. Almost all cars on the road today (luxury or not) have power steering, braking, shifting etc.  There are a lot of electronics in even the "simplest" car doing a lot of things for you.

Gabe said:

i'm a raging bigoted facist troll. i can't wait for the business cards. :-)

the "modern" vehicles you r speaking of r the new ones where it will apply the break or slow down for u if something has happened. those are still only equipped in luxury vehicles. the vast majority of cars are in the drivers control. that argument is 10 years from being meaningful.

and we are talking about milliseconds of reaction time for a driver. and u r absolutely right when u say there are many factors. drowsiness, cell phone, etc... each one making the chance of an accident greater. so is the argument that a disabled person wont also talk on the phone and be sleepy? they r disabled and therefore already are starting out slower than an abled person (if they weren't at all slower they wouldn't be disabled). then those factors will only compound the issues they are dealing with.

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 11:57am

sorry liz i thought u were trying to use an argument that would be in some way relevant to this discussion. i'm sure a dead cyclist would be happy to know that the car that killed them had power breaking and steering. and wouldnt be at all saddened that the driver was just a second to slow to use them properly.

Permalink Reply by Davo on January 5, 2011 at 12:27pm

Based on what you said previously about how cars should not be modified for people with disabilities, what is your stance on bicycles that are modified for people with disabilities? I’m specifically talking about the mods for paraplegics that you see in iron man competitions. I've seen a guy with one of these on Critical Mass. 

Permalink Reply by Jack on January 5, 2011 at 12:51pm

In a perfect world of unicorns crapping rainbows, everyone would follow the laws, delays caused by others wouldn't exist and no one would have the unfortunate distinction of being handicapped.

 

Well, I didn't see a unicorn crapping rainbows today soooo... banning handicapped drivers is narrow minded.  We could also make travel safer if engine driven vehicles were banned all together, then ban bicycles as well as they would be probably the next in line of "dangerous" modes of transportation. 

 

If your left ankle is shattered in an accident (by said unicorns if you will) and you own an automatic transmission car, would this be an exception to the handicap "rule" people here are proposing?  You would have a temporary HC card for your car.  It wouldn't limit their ability to drive said car. 

 

When drawing a line in the sand, it is amazing how the lines are all within arms' reach.

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 1:02pm

davo-can u kill someone with the modified bicycle. unlikely. you could beat them to death with it but if ya hit someone with it chances are they wont die. made me giggle though.

jack-a broken left ankle happers nothing in an automatic car. he or she gets no placard they get a walking boot and a bill from the doc.

is it my understanding that no one believes a handicapped person would be at all slower behind the wheel? why r they handicapped then? if nothing is wrong then no discussion is necessary.

everyones need to hug everyone else and not accept obvious things in front of them is narrow minded isnt it?

Permalink Reply by Vilda on January 5, 2011 at 1:06pm

sorry, hampers not happers.

and if handicapped people being behind the wheel is ok and the fact they r slower is acceptable than why bother legislating against cell phone use or texting or even drinkin behind the wheel? we can do away with all of it if that's the case. :-)

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