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Bicycling wastes gas ?

I found this interesting and thought I would pass it on. I never considered the fact that what and how I eat had this much of an impact on anything more than my own health and well being. Chalk one up for the Veggiemonster :)

http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/energy.html



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Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on October 1, 2010 at 12:03pm
I'd like to see some supporting evidence for this rape-as-biological-imperative allegation

There is none at all for the strong version involving, essentially, a "rape gene" that was kicked around a few years ago when "A Natural History of Rape" was briefly controversial. In fact, a recent-ish study of an isolated tribe showed that rape is a bad adaptation once you factor in the odds of a rapist being killed by a woman's relatives and such.

There is, though, reason to think that a weak version of the claim is right—a woman is twice as likely to be impregnated by a rape as by consensual intercourse, for instance, and the practice of mass rape is a constant in the history of war. In this line it's a curious byproduct of evolution, like bicycle riding or poker playing. Strictly speaking that doesn't mean much, but that's the point—claiming that rape or tramp stamps are alright because of evolution is ridiculous, and the same is true of making that claim about meat eating or volunteering in an orphanage.
Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on October 1, 2010 at 12:23pm


Dr. Doom said:
I'd like to see some supporting evidence for this rape-as-biological-imperative allegation

There is none at all for the strong version involving, essentially, a "rape gene" that was kicked around a few years ago when "A Natural History of Rape" was briefly controversial. In fact, a recent-ish study of an isolated tribe showed that rape is a bad adaptation once you factor in the odds of a rapist being killed by a woman's relatives and such.

There is, though, reason to think that a weak version of the claim is right—a woman is twice as likely to be impregnated by a rape as by consensual intercourse, for instance, and the practice of mass rape is a constant in the history of war. In this line it's a curious byproduct of evolution, like bicycle riding or poker playing. Strictly speaking that doesn't mean much, but that's the point—claiming that rape or tramp stamps are alright because of evolution is ridiculous, and the same is true of making that claim about meat eating or volunteering in an orphanage.

I completely agree that certain behaviors cannot be justified by evolutionary happenstance, but the notion of rape as a byproduct of the evolutionary process is demonstrably false by just about any reasonable metric. Civilization has grown increasingly peaceful. Human beings fight less wars and for shorter duration. Family size in developed and developing areas of the world is shrinking because the necessity of survival through sheer propagation has diminished. If the tendency toward rape is to be considered a human characteristic developed from biological or cultural necessity - whether for survival or dominance - then human beings are definitely evolving away from, not toward it.
Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on October 1, 2010 at 12:44pm
I have stated earlier in this thread that my wife and life-partner is a vegetarian by choice, and that I respect and understand full her position fully -although I do not share it.

I tend to think of myself as a mindful and introspective person. I take offense at being called willfully ignorant, but will excuse it this one time considering the source.



Jason said:
To James: bro, try to look a little bigger picture. Not everyone who is meat free is doing it because they think the death of an animal for human consumption is morally wrong. There are political, economic, environmental and even national security concerns at play. You've made it pretty clear that you're only interested in approaching this topic in outdated terms: "dirty hippy limp wristed whiners vs. real American man meat eaters". That's unfortunate, because I think it's probably the context that much of America still views this debate in, which is willfully ignorant.
Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on October 1, 2010 at 1:17pm
Returning to the topic at hand, here's some commentary on fuel consumption.

Or meat.


Or something.

Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on October 1, 2010 at 2:13pm
I was JUST going to post this!




Michael Perz said:
Returning to the topic at hand, here's some commentary on fuel consumption.

Or meat.


Or something.

Permalink Reply by Jason on October 1, 2010 at 3:10pm
From your earlier posts: "It's all just silly pseudo-intellectual denial to think that it can be any other way....I have not let Disney's decades of talking animals brainwash me into anthropomorphizing animals into something that they are not." Yeah, totally starting it off on the mindful and introspective tip there. Setting the tone of intelligent debate and all. Sticking to the issues and whatnot.

I'm glad your wife is vegetarian and that you respect and understand her position, it's too bad that you can't extend that courtesy beyond the confines of your marriage in this case. But hey, you think of yourself a certain way, so that must be how you are, mindful and introspective, incapable of willful ignorance. After all you're married to a vegetarian, ergo incapable of willful ignorance. I get it, like how white people with friends of color are incapable of being racially insensitive. Cool, cool, I feel ya.

James Baum said:
I have stated earlier in this thread that my wife and life-partner is a vegetarian by choice, and that I respect and understand full her position fully -although I do not share it.

I tend to think of myself as a mindful and introspective person. I take offense at being called willfully ignorant, but will excuse it this one time considering the source.



Jason said:
To James: bro, try to look a little bigger picture. Not everyone who is meat free is doing it because they think the death of an animal for human consumption is morally wrong. There are political, economic, environmental and even national security concerns at play. You've made it pretty clear that you're only interested in approaching this topic in outdated terms: "dirty hippy limp wristed whiners vs. real American man meat eaters". That's unfortunate, because I think it's probably the context that much of America still views this debate in, which is willfully ignorant.
Permalink Reply by Rick norris on October 1, 2010 at 3:35pm


Gabe said:
Filet Mignon wrapped in bacon is the shit! ;-)

Stuffed with foie gras and deep fried...

I been lurking here and I know the cheap chicken sold in the stores is full of stuff thats makes them grow fast, I know this happens to my beef, and the pig, and the duck, and....I actually cooked a chicken breast from whole foods and one from someplace else. It's amazing the different way the two meats cook. But the sad fact is, I cant always buy from whole foods, and this being Chicago, I don't think I'll be raising my own food anytime soon..and driving to a farm to but direct don't make sense, I don't have time to go to the few farmers markets when they are open...It really must have been tough 100 years ago..ANYWAY

But let me ask this, right now vegetarians (in this country) are a minority what changes would REALLY occur if most people ate vegan ? In a city like Chicago you got about 3 million people. Not all the veggies will be locally grown, and many of them can only be grown in season. So ALOT of food will be grown someplace else and shipped in (fuel) or grown indoors (more energy) the foods still require packaging (energy and other products) and then shelf life will become an issue (more chemicals, or genetics, or radiation?) So many people think that irradiating food is bad, and myself I'm not too keen on genetically altered veggies, and I think we can all agree that insecticides are not good to eat. And since the cost of the food has to be low, for the farmer to make a profit, it has to grow fast, so more chemicles or genetics

No matter what food we eat there will be issues with energy, safety, and transportation, and the more people that eat it the larger the issues will be...Then lets just PRETEND real soon everyone becomes a vegetarian..OK the only people that will be able to have the capital to produce foods will be the ones that already understand and use the food supply chain, probably meat producers, and mega farms so the money probably wont go to anyone but a big nameless corporation anyway...

So EVERYONE eating vegan doesn't seem to be an answer to all the problems,IMO.
OK my opinion....

Time for lunch...

HMMM whats this can labeled?...

Soylent green....

Huh must be something new, I wonder if its got meat in it?
Permalink Reply by Glenn on October 1, 2010 at 3:53pm
If you live in modern western industrial civilization, chances are a majority of your life depends on at some point in time, the use of fossil fuels. Almost unavoidable. Or in the great words of Bill Nye, "When you do stuff, stuff happens."

In short I think people need to stop and think about what and how their actions really affect themselves, the people around them, their community and the greater world around them. Then again, as a gentleman once told me, "This is America and we are free here... We can do what we want."
Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on October 1, 2010 at 3:57pm
Tried Fluffy, tried SG. Fluffy was much better. SG was a big greasy.

After the 10:10's get done Mao/Stalin/PolPotting everyone who dosn't agree with them there will be plenty of SG to go around. These people always seem to work to that end after calling you Willfully Ignorant, Bourgeois, Capitalist, Rapist, Racist, Redneck, and whatever else they can pick up and sling for "thinking differently," they always get around to just "eliminating" everyone who stands in their way. You know, the few must sacrifice for the good of the many...

History is repeats itself over and over again. Don't subscribe to our new order of wealth-redistribution and top-down socioeconomic 5-year plans? Well it's off of the Gulags with you (or we push a button and blow you up!)



Rick norris said:

Soylent green....

Huh must be something new, I wonder if its got meat in it?
Permalink Reply by Vilda on October 1, 2010 at 4:23pm
There is never to much bacon.




Craig S. said:


Gabe said:
Filet Mignon wrapped in bacon is the shit! ;-)

Is there ever too much bacon?
Permalink Reply by Far'arned Retrogrumpalunkus #63 on October 1, 2010 at 4:25pm
BACON!!!
Permalink Reply by Dr. Doom on October 1, 2010 at 4:32pm
Right, because suggesting that people should eat less and more responsibly raised meat or that "God/Darwin made me do it" isn't really a very good explanation for doing something is exactly the same as killing 40 million people in five years or demanding that everyone become a hardcore vegan.

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