Wheel building

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by A.K.A Paul on May 24, 2010 at 6:21pm

I had a rear wheel built by the guys at Rapid Transit, and I'm finishing up the front wheel myself in the wheel class they offer. I highly reccomend them.

IMHO...Depending on how many spokes you need that may be an unrealistic figure for both wheels. The cheapest I've found spokes at retail in Chicago is $1.00/per. I got them for roughly .70/ per but had to buy a box of 100. After you pay for the spokes it doesnt leave much room for the labor or hubs if you have to pay for them.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on May 24, 2010 at 11:37pm

Unless you're looking for some exotic lacing patterns, having that particular set of wheels built may not be worth it. Already built sets of Deep Vees to blank hubs (usually Formula or re-branded) seem to be selling for around two to three hundred bucks depending on where you look. If you're going to spend the money to have a set custom built by a local shop (which is always a good thing), you may want to consider some better rim/hub options.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Perz on May 24, 2010 at 11:54pm

Also, how much do you weigh and what kind of riding do you most often do? Depending on this, Velocity wheels may prove to be total overkill.

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Permalink Reply by RodimusPrime on May 25, 2010 at 2:04am

Michael Perz said:

Unless you're looking for some exotic lacing patterns, having that particular set of wheels built may not be worth it. Already built sets of Deep Vees to blank hubs (usually Formula or re-branded) seem to be selling for around two to three hundred bucks depending on where you look. If you're going to spend the money to have a set custom built by a local shop (which is always a good thing), you may want to consider some better rim/hub options.

that's pretty much the truth at the price range. If anything, buy a set of prebuilt ( if you're going velocity to anything level with formula) and just have the shop check the tension/ true of the wheels before.

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Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on May 25, 2010 at 7:31am

Learning how to build your own wheels is a valuable skill and a very rewarding experience. In addition to Rapid Transit, West Town Bikes has a wheel-building course that is well-worth it. Those cummulative skills will also make you better at truing and rounding your own wheels when you just need a little repair. Alex taught me how to build wheels and I think it is one of the most valuable bike-related skills one could have. I have built two-dozen wheels since then and it is a very rewarding experience to build up your own wheelset and ride it, or have others ride it.

Also, as an aside, I find Velocity Deep V's the most over-rated, ridiculously heavy rims in the entire universe. If you were really intent on BLUE rims, Weinman makes lighter and cheaper rims, Vuelta makes comparably priced much better, lighter rims, and Alex makes slightly less expensive, similarlly strong and similar weight to Velocity rims. If you are not beholden to a blue rim, then the world is your oyster and you can build on a billion silver or black/grey rims that are some combination of lighter/stronger/cheaper/better, and then you could get some Vitoria Zafiro blue walls, or something similar and get a tweaker version of that look.

For Hubs, Formula's engineering has really perfected mid-priced track and flip-flop hubs so those are my go-to hubs for single-speed/fixed and I really like working with them. Sure you can spend a bunch more, but for fixed-gear for road/single-speed city riding, it is entirely overkill. I like the TH-50 and TH-52 in particular.

Good luck and cheers!

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Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on May 25, 2010 at 9:13am

Lee Diamond said:

... Also, as an aside, I find Velocity Deep V's the most over-rated, ridiculously heavy rims in the entire universe.
...

Personally I think they look like crap to boot. I'm glad to hear that I am not alone in my non-love for the Deep V. As a huge (225 lbs) person I've had to struggle with ruling them out as a component of a super sturdy wheelset.

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Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on May 25, 2010 at 9:20am

Tony,

You might want to try 36 hole Sun M13 IIs. They are great rims, lighter than Velocities by a good bit, and sturdy as hell. Several tandem bikes use these as their rims and I can't say enough about how reliable and economical they are.


Cheers - Lee - fellow heavy rider - Diamond
Tony Adams said:

Lee Diamond said:

... Also, as an aside, I find Velocity Deep V's the most over-rated, ridiculously heavy rims in the entire universe.
...

Personally I think they look like crap to boot. I'm glad to hear that I am not alone in my non-love for the Deep V. As a huge (225 lbs) person I've had to struggle with ruling them out as a component of a super sturdy wheelset.

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Permalink Reply by J on May 25, 2010 at 9:42am

Kate, as someone who builds hundreds of wheels each year, I would agree with much of what's been written, but with maybe a little more nuance.

First of all, yes -- you can easily purchase a set of handbuilt blue Velocity Deep Vs laced to Formula hubs at several local shops for <$300.

I don't want to get into a flame war over the relative merits of the various rim manufacturers, but if you talk with folks who build a lot of wheels (for various applications) you will find that the Velocity Deep V has its place. There are other aluminum rims in the 30mm range which are lighter (Kinlin, Alex, Weinmann) but none are as rigid and some are clearly of inferior construction.

But as others have written, there are many other (prefab) options to consider. The question of whether or not to go handbuilt basically boils down to construction and aesthetics, and how deeply these things matter to you.

Construction
Wheelbuilders try to balance price, weight, and performance; there is a necessary give and take between these variables. The fact of the matter is that for most urban Chicagoland riding, unless a riders is a bit hefty -- the wheelset you have described (assuming 32 holes) is overbuilt. But this isn't necessarily a bad thing -- it just means that they're probably a bit heavier than you could get away with, but on the other hand they are likely to be extremely durable and low maintenance. And while there are many rim makes these days, I wouldn't necessarily view the Deep V as overrated. It may be a trendy rim, but it's appreciably more rigid than other 30mm depth rims such as the Kinlin and Vuelta. But these are nuances that may not really matter to you, leading us to...

Aesthetics
Some folks just want cool colored rims -- and the truth is that Velocity offers the widest range. But going a bit deeper -- with handbuilt wheels you can customize spoke color/weight, lacing pattern, nipple material/color, etc. And for fixies -- one of the major aesthetic problems some folks have with most of the prefab wheels is the presence of a machined braking surface. I know this may seem minor to some folks, but most non-track fixies I work on have a single front brake -- leading to a front rim with a machined surface and a rear rim that is all one color.

And if you've read this far: I have a set of handbuilt black/black/blue 3X/3X wheels at the shop (Wheelsmith spokes & nipples, Formula hubs, MSW/NMSW Deep Vs) that need a home. $250.

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Permalink Reply by Tony Adams on May 25, 2010 at 9:43am

Lee Diamond said:

Tony,

You might want to try 36 hole Sun M13 IIs. They are great rims, lighter than Velocities by a good bit, and sturdy as hell. Several tandem bikes use these as their rims and I can't say enough about how reliable and economical they are.


Cheers - Lee - fellow heavy rider - Diamond
Tony Adams said:

Lee Diamond said:

... Also, as an aside, I find Velocity Deep V's the most over-rated, ridiculously heavy rims in the entire universe.
...

Personally I think they look like crap to boot. I'm glad to hear that I am not alone in my non-love for the Deep V. As a huge (225 lbs) person I've had to struggle with ruling them out as a component of a super sturdy wheelset.

Wow! $36?! ($25.48 + $11.49 shipping at Amazon just for reference - I'll use my LBS if possible.) That is great news - thanks! I was budgeting somewhere between $50 and $100 the rim for my imminent 3 speed build.

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Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on May 25, 2010 at 9:51am

J,

You need not worry about a flame war with me. You have repeatedly proven your knowledge on a variety of cycling and equipment-specific related subjects and I defer to your knowledge. My bad for slamming Velocity. I've had a couple of sets and built one, so my experience level is about one/one-billionth of yours. I do however build wheels for very different purposes I suppose so some of my opinions come from that. Building up a bunch of loaner bikes for people to ride, spending that much on rims would make my idea more impossible than it has already proven to be. I also bristle against hype naturally, so that seems to be another influence on my opinion. The main thing for me is the cost of those rims vs. others though, but again, my build needs have hugely different criteria.

I should definitely learn to stop chiming in on equipment issues without a IN BOLD statement that it is based on my non-expert opinion.

Cheers - Lee

J said:

Kate, as someone who builds hundreds of wheels each year, I would agree with much of what's been written, but with maybe a little more nuance.

First of all, yes -- you can easily purchase a set of handbuilt blue Velocity Deep Vs laced to Formula hubs at a local shop.

I don't want to get into a flame war over the relative merits of the various rim manufacturers, but if you talk with folks who build a lot of wheels (for various applications) you will find that the Velocity Deep V has its place. There are other aluminum rims in the 30mm range which are lighter (Kinlin, Alex, Weinmann) but none are as rigid and some are clearly of inferior construction.

But as others have written, there are many other (prefab) options to consider. The question of whether or not to go handbuilt basically boils down to construction and aesthetics, and how deeply these things matter to you.

Construction
Wheelbuilders try to balance price, weight, and performance; there is a necessary give and take between these variables. The fact of the matter is that for most urban Chicagoland riding, unless a riders is a bit hefty -- the wheelset you have described (assuming 32 holes) is overbuilt. But this isn't necessarily a bad thing -- it just means that they're probably a bit heavier than you could get away with, but on the other hand they are likely to be extremely durable and low maintenance. And while there are many rim makes these days, I wouldn't necessarily view the Deep V as overrated. It may be a trendy rim, but it's appreciably more rigid than other 30mm depth rims such as the Kinlin and Vuelta. But these are nuances that may not really matter to you, leading us to...

Aesthetics
Some folks just want cool colored rims -- and the truth is that Velocity offers the widest range. But going a bit deeper -- with handbuilt wheels you can customize spoke color/weight, lacing pattern, nipple material/color, etc. And for fixies -- one of the major aesthetic problems some folks have with most of the prefab wheels is the presence of a machined braking surface. I know this may seem minor to some folks, but most non-track fixies I work on have a single front brake -- leading to a front rim with a machined surface and a rear rim that is all one color.

And if you've read this far: I have a set of handbuilt black/black/blue 3X/3X wheels at the shop (Wheelsmith spokes & nipples, Formula hubs, MSW/NMSW Deep Vs) that need a home. $250.

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Permalink Reply by Lee Diamond on May 25, 2010 at 9:54am

As proven above, you may wish to ask J what he thinks....he is a fountain of bike equipment knowledge. I have to confess though, that while my build needs are different than many folks would be, they are just too good a value for me to pass up. I have seen some very nice bikes built up on these or Sun CR18 when you would expect a pricey set of rims, but I love them, and again, they are cheap. Now if I could just convince you to buy at a LBS instead of Amazon..... :-)

Cheers - Lee

Tony Adams said:

Lee Diamond said:

Tony,

You might want to try 36 hole Sun M13 IIs. They are great rims, lighter than Velocities by a good bit, and sturdy as hell. Several tandem bikes use these as their rims and I can't say enough about how reliable and economical they are.


Cheers - Lee - fellow heavy rider - Diamond
Tony Adams said:

Lee Diamond said:

... Also, as an aside, I find Velocity Deep V's the most over-rated, ridiculously heavy rims in the entire universe.
...

Personally I think they look like crap to boot. I'm glad to hear that I am not alone in my non-love for the Deep V. As a huge (225 lbs) person I've had to struggle with ruling them out as a component of a super sturdy wheelset.

Wow! $36?! ($25.48 + $11.49 shipping at Amazon just for reference - I'll use my LBS if possible.) That is great news - thanks! I was budgeting somewhere between $50 and $100 the rim for my imminent 3 speed build.

• ▶ Reply