Red Light Cameras - Pro or No?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 2, 2010 at 11:26pm

Double clutching is done to match the speed of the gear clusters inside of the transmission when you shift preventing the gears from grinding into each other. The practice is not needed in most modern 'syncromesh' manual transmissions because they use syncros to run the gear you are shifting into to up to a matching speed. It is still needed in some large truck transmissions because they are not synchronized but other then thatif you are driving something made after about the mid 50's it is not a necessity.

H3N3 said:

I still don't quite get it-- why would you "double clutch?"
It sounds like what you're calling "power-shifting" is what I've always heard called downshifting.
Supposed to be good for the engine as it wears the rings/bearings more evenly than always being torqued in one direction.

Jessica said:

Double clutching is putting the clutch in - shift to neutral - let clutch out - reengage clutch (or disengage... are we talking pedal, or what's actually happening? lol), shift into gear.

You're not supposed to double clutch in cars with syncros... at least not the new ones. I dunno... I got lucky with my car. I've been violently powershifting for over 3 years now... it hasn't broken yet. There's a shimmy in my rear end though... I'm sure that's going soon. (typical LS1 though...)

Again, edited to add that 'don't double clutch' has been taught to me by my way-more-into-cars-than-me buddies.

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Permalink Reply by Jessica on March 2, 2010 at 11:34pm

Powershifting is shifting without letting off the gas. You push the clutch in, slam it into the next gear and QUICKLY let out, having the gas floored the whole time. It is AWFUL for the trans/clutch, but makes for some wicked fast runs.

Again, let me stress... NOT GOOD FOR YOUR CAR. lol. I just don't care...

H3N3 said:

I still don't quite get it-- why would you "double clutch?"
It sounds like what you're calling "power-shifting" is what I've always heard called downshifting.
Supposed to be good for the engine as it wears the rings/bearings more evenly than always being torqued in one direction.

Jessica said:

Double clutching is putting the clutch in - shift to neutral - let clutch out - reengage clutch (or disengage... are we talking pedal, or what's actually happening? lol), shift into gear.

You're not supposed to double clutch in cars with syncros... at least not the new ones. I dunno... I got lucky with my car. I've been violently powershifting for over 3 years now... it hasn't broken yet. There's a shimmy in my rear end though... I'm sure that's going soon. (typical LS1 though...)

Again, edited to add that 'don't double clutch' has been taught to me by my way-more-into-cars-than-me buddies.

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Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on March 2, 2010 at 11:51pm

I think they are the best thing ever invented and I wish they were at every single controlled intersection in the city. People don't care about the accidents they might cause by their careless inattentive driving but when it comes to getting a fine they start to care. That is the way it works and I say fine 'em each and every time.

Sorry Joe, you broke the law and you will have to pay. Better luck next time. I know I have had to break hard more than just a few times but you got to pay attention and speeding doesn't help in these situations. Some of these lights have record-short yellows.

If you are over the line, and I mean all the way over the line, before it turns red you've got no worries. From a business guy's point of view, this is an awesome way to raise revenue.

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Permalink Reply by mattbikes1 on March 3, 2010 at 12:00am

I beg to differ. You can not legally enter an intersection until it is clear. Jessie White's most recent literature specifies this quite clearly. I had to take the test to get my Illinois license last fall and got 100% after thoroughly studying the driver's rules of the road for IL.

notoriousDUG said:

Technically no but it is common practice; if you are sitting there when the light turns and somebody takes off and runs into you when followed to the letter of the law you are in the wrong.
Trust me on this one, I have gotten the ticket to prove it.
Jessica said:

Aren't you allowed to enter the intersection for a left, and allowed to clear it if the light is yellow/red?

And downhill isn't an excuse... speedlimit is the speedlimit, even if you ruin your brakes by riding them. <3 sticks shift for this reason...

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Permalink Reply by h' Zerocats on March 3, 2010 at 12:28am

So you're basically doing it when you're letting the RPMs come down to shift into a lower gear?
Why wouldn't you just hold the pedal in?

notoriousDUG said:

Double clutching is done to match the speed of the gear clusters inside of the transmission when you shift preventing the gears from grinding into each other. The practice is not needed in most modern 'syncromesh' manual transmissions because they use syncros to run the gear you are shifting into to up to a matching speed. It is still needed in some large truck transmissions because they are not synchronized but other then thatif you are driving something made after about the mid 50's it is not a necessity.

H3N3 said:

I still don't quite get it-- why would you "double clutch?"
It sounds like what you're calling "power-shifting" is what I've always heard called downshifting.
Supposed to be good for the engine as it wears the rings/bearings more evenly than always being torqued in one direction.

Jessica said:

Double clutching is putting the clutch in - shift to neutral - let clutch out - reengage clutch (or disengage... are we talking pedal, or what's actually happening? lol), shift into gear.

You're not supposed to double clutch in cars with syncros... at least not the new ones. I dunno... I got lucky with my car. I've been violently powershifting for over 3 years now... it hasn't broken yet. There's a shimmy in my rear end though... I'm sure that's going soon. (typical LS1 though...)

Again, edited to add that 'don't double clutch' has been taught to me by my way-more-into-cars-than-me buddies.

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Permalink Reply by Dan Korn on March 3, 2010 at 2:03am

notoriousDUG said:

I hate the cameras, they often get triggered by legal right turns on red and eliminate the judgment of an actual person writing the ticket.

That's why you get a chance to go to Traffic Court and contest the ticket to an actual judge. It's exactly the same as when a cop writes a ticket.
caitlin eleanor field said:

I HATE THEM. I have gotten 3 red light tickets over the course of 2 months....this was earlier this year, seeing as how I am now carless. They are so ridiculous, because they don't account for situations in which you have no choice, get stuck trying to make a left turn, etc.

Again, did you contest the tickets in traffic court? Did you explain the situation to the judge?

If anything, I would think that people who are wrongly accused of running red lights would appreciate having photographic evidence, instead of it just being the cop's word against theirs.

Kudos to the ATA for taking this stance!

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Permalink Reply by Joe TV on March 3, 2010 at 3:16am

So how short is too short for a yellow light?

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 3, 2010 at 8:42am

Um, I think you need to read my posts again, I'm the one who pointed out what you just said...

Congratulations on scoring 100% on the most basic written test the DMV offers, go take the CDL tests and then let me know how well you think you know the rules of the road right now.

mattbikes1 said:

I beg to differ. You can not legally enter an intersection until it is clear. Jessie White's most recent literature specifies this quite clearly. I had to take the test to get my Illinois license last fall and got 100% after thoroughly studying the driver's rules of the road for IL.

notoriousDUG said:

Technically no but it is common practice; if you are sitting there when the light turns and somebody takes off and runs into you when followed to the letter of the law you are in the wrong.
Trust me on this one, I have gotten the ticket to prove it.
Jessica said:

Aren't you allowed to enter the intersection for a left, and allowed to clear it if the light is yellow/red?

And downhill isn't an excuse... speedlimit is the speedlimit, even if you ruin your brakes by riding them. <3 sticks shift for this reason...

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 3, 2010 at 8:45am

You are matching the RPMs of the gears in the transmission, on newer cars and small trucks you can just leave the clutch in because they do it automatically but on large trucks and old vehicles you have to double clutch and match the speeds of the gears in the trans manually.

Double clutching, in the modern world, only really applies to truck drivers and in all reality truck drivers don't use the clutch to shift from gear to gear unless they are taking a driving test.

H3N3 said:

So you're basically doing it when you're letting the RPMs come down to shift into a lower gear?
Why wouldn't you just hold the pedal in?

notoriousDUG said:

Double clutching is done to match the speed of the gear clusters inside of the transmission when you shift preventing the gears from grinding into each other. The practice is not needed in most modern 'syncromesh' manual transmissions because they use syncros to run the gear you are shifting into to up to a matching speed. It is still needed in some large truck transmissions because they are not synchronized but other then thatif you are driving something made after about the mid 50's it is not a necessity.

H3N3 said:

I still don't quite get it-- why would you "double clutch?"
It sounds like what you're calling "power-shifting" is what I've always heard called downshifting.
Supposed to be good for the engine as it wears the rings/bearings more evenly than always being torqued in one direction.

Jessica said:

Double clutching is putting the clutch in - shift to neutral - let clutch out - reengage clutch (or disengage... are we talking pedal, or what's actually happening? lol), shift into gear.

You're not supposed to double clutch in cars with syncros... at least not the new ones. I dunno... I got lucky with my car. I've been violently powershifting for over 3 years now... it hasn't broken yet. There's a shimmy in my rear end though... I'm sure that's going soon. (typical LS1 though...)

Again, edited to add that 'don't double clutch' has been taught to me by my way-more-into-cars-than-me buddies.

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Permalink Reply by Doug Haynes on March 3, 2010 at 8:46am

The problem is the camera is a still camera and there is no way to differentiate between rolling the light and a legal right turn on red.

Dan Korn said:

notoriousDUG said:

I hate the cameras, they often get triggered by legal right turns on red and eliminate the judgment of an actual person writing the ticket.

That's why you get a chance to go to Traffic Court and contest the ticket to an actual judge. It's exactly the same as when a cop writes a ticket.
caitlin eleanor field said:

I HATE THEM. I have gotten 3 red light tickets over the course of 2 months....this was earlier this year, seeing as how I am now carless. They are so ridiculous, because they don't account for situations in which you have no choice, get stuck trying to make a left turn, etc.

Again, did you contest the tickets in traffic court? Did you explain the situation to the judge?

If anything, I would think that people who are wrongly accused of running red lights would appreciate having photographic evidence, instead of it just being the cop's word against theirs.

Kudos to the ATA for taking this stance!

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Permalink Reply by Davo on March 3, 2010 at 1:21pm

You are not supposed to shift while in the middle of an intersection.

Lionel Senderowicz said:

replacing a clutch is more expensive than replacing brakes <3 :)

an article from the Straight dope:

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1377/to-slow-a-stick-shift...

Jessica said:

Aren't you allowed to enter the intersection for a left, and allowed to clear it if the light is yellow/red?
And downhill isn't an excuse... speedlimit is the speedlimit, even if you ruin your brakes by riding them. <3 sticks shift for this reason...

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Permalink Reply by David Lieb on March 3, 2010 at 1:34pm

IMHO they are mere revenue generators. Most of the tickets are issued for "right on red" without some arcane unknown amount of a stop, hardly a hazardous situation. I applaud Schaumburg for ripping the things out.

A friend of mine who works for a police department got one of these in Chicago a couple years ago... problem was that the photo showed his vehicle proceeding through an intersection with a GREEN light. He contested it (obviously) and he said that you would not believe how hard it was to find someone who could look at the photo and say that there was no infraction. You are considered guilty the moment the photo is mailed out.

Also, I see a LOT of flashes when there is no infraction at the ones near me. Someone pulls up to the line and stops, Flash. They wait and turn right on red, Flash Flash. I am sure that not all of them are issued tickets.

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