Should cyclist go to jail for riding a fixie?

Cyclist kills pedestrian, authorities say if he were riding a bike with "proper brakes", he could have stopped in time. What do you think?


http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-40927791

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Permalink Reply by ad on August 24, 2017 at 6:25am

Would you say something to someone on a coaster brake-only bike (which are becoming increasingly common), or to someone who rides an old 70s steel-rimmed bike in the rain (which are notoriously horrible at stopping, and are actually some of the most common bikes I see)?  A brakeless fixed gear rider is actually much more likely to be able to stop faster than either of the cyclists I mention above, yet brakeless riding is treated like this scourge that will lead to untold horrors.  Like most thing, it's the operator, not the equipment, that creates the accident.  Neither the accident described above, nor most accidents I've ever read about, are any different.  

Permalink Reply by ad on August 24, 2017 at 6:19am

The cyclist was in the wrong, and was convicted as a result.  That said, the front brake aspect is a little bit of a red herring IMHO.  I'm sure the prosecution presented an expert who testified an individual can stop a bike going 20 m.p.h. faster with a front brake than with his legs alone, but taking it to the next level and stating that it actually made a difference here in terms of avoiding an accident, or that it would make a difference in most crashes even if it would have here, is much harder. 

I think it's an optics thing---people look at a brakeless fixed gear and can't imagine how anyone could stop it quickly.  Well, people can.  I mean, a front disk brake is likely going to stop you faster than rim brakes (especially when wet), but that doesn't mean I'm reckless simply because I ride a bike that has rim brakes.   

Permalink Reply by S on August 24, 2017 at 7:59am

It's more than an optics thing.  Most of your braking power comes from the front wheels (in cars it's about 75% from the front) because your weight shifts forward when braking giving more stopping power to the front wheels.  Also, when braking, skidding reduces your stopping power.  So a fixie without brakes (front or back) has significantly less stopping power than even one with a front brake.  And yeah, picking a bike that has significantly less ability to stop just for fashion is reckless.

Permalink Reply by ad on August 24, 2017 at 9:15am

I ride fixed in the winter (I ride with a front brake), so I understand the point.  No one can debate the fact that you can likely stop quicker with a front brake.  I'm saying the optics come into play regarding the belief that a brakeless bike can't be stopped safely, or quick enough not to be reckless.  IMHO, it can be.  Brakeless riding is not a new phenomenon, and the "dangers" of it have been hyped for years without I think a strong correlation to actual impact on accidents. 

I think there's a functional difference between "significantly less ability to stop" (though I likely also disagree in the amount of significance between the two if you're trying not to endo) and "recklessness."  Like I noted in another comment, a 70s bicycle with steel rims has significantly less stopping power than a bicycle with modern alloy rims (likely even less than a brakeless fixed gear ridden by an experienced rider in wet weather), but that doesn't mean the 100s of people riding steel rims are "reckless."  Moreover, a bike with disks can be stopped quicker than a bike with rim brakes assuming the disks are set up correctly.  Does that mean I'm reckless for riding a bike with rim brakes solely because it makes me slower to stop? 

I also disagree that everyone who does it does it solely for fashion.  Sure, it's a choice, but I'm not sure it can be reduced purely to trying to just look cool.  

Permalink Reply by TonyP on August 24, 2017 at 9:44am

Brakes, what kind of brakes or brakeless, it doesn't matter to me, you run over a pedestrian it's your fault, whether riding a bicycle or driving a car.

Saying that, I would like to ask, what does drive someone riding a fixie sans brakes if it isn't to look cool? It strikes me as the same mind-set that drives smokers, but I would like to hear real reasons that are not justifications.  

It's something that makes sense on the velodrome but I don't get it on the street.

Permalink Reply by ad on August 24, 2017 at 10:32am

Agreed.  This guy was going at a decent clip, apparently yelled at her multiple times to get out of the way (suggesting he had plenty of time to stop regardless of brake issues), and then hit her when she didn't clear out (and apparently then claimed he didn't have time to stop).

I don't ride brakeless, so I'm the wrong person to speak as to why various people chose to do it, to the extent they'd even all agree.  I just disagree that it's so inherently dangerous as to be indisputably reckless, irregardless of the skill and/or behavior of the operator while riding. 

I just think that type of logic is the same reason why we see 50 comments on a Trib article asking if the cyclist was wearing a helmet when the victim got creamed by a truck and had no chance of surviving, regardless of the answer.    

  

Permalink Reply by Jim Reho on August 26, 2017 at 9:38am

There have been various studies done on this.  From what I've seen, a fixie takes more than twice as long and twice as far to stop as a bike with a front brake.  Here's an example:

https://ligneusbikes.wordpress.com/2012/04/23/brakeless-clueless/

I'm quite sure a fixie stops a lot slower in rain, too, when skidded on a wet surface.  And do you know what, I can't think of the last time I saw someone on a bike with a coaster brake riding as recklessly as any number of fixie riders I see every time I'm downtown (or anywhere else).  Coaster brake bikes are cruisers and are generally ridden as such.  What you need to address, ad, is that the no-brake thing is part of a whole fixie mentality of risk-taking.  Fixie riders, on the whole, seem to view themselves as daring rebels, above such mundane concepts as stopping at red lights, going down the street in the right direction, yielding to traffic, and slowing for pedestrians.  And, might I add, they seem to believe (wrongly) they have superhuman reflexes and agility, as well as cat-like super-vision.  I include the last because I have never, ever seen someone on a fixie at night with proper lights.  I guess they would spoil the elegant lines of a fixie frame, or sever its psychic connection with the Earth, or something.  That's the real issue:  the cyclists who ride the most dangerously have the least ability to stop when their poor cycling creates a perilous situation.  In this case, the problem is both the operators AND their equipment.  And those operators and that equipment create an awful lot of animosity against all cyclists, including me.        

 

Permalink Reply by Frank Brichetto on August 24, 2017 at 6:38am

Yes. Pedestrians have right-of-way.  It's our responsibility to ride with sufficient awareness and respect to avoid hitting them.  He had time to yell at her, he saw her headed into the street, obviously.  It's all on him to avoid the collision.   Decent brakes, employed immediately, would have prevented this.

Permalink Reply by Christopher Wallace on August 24, 2017 at 7:44am
If you own or work at a bike shop that will work on a bike with no pedal or hand brakes. When the cyclist gets hurt or killed, or hurts or kills a cyclist; the liability for the lack of a stopping device falls on your lap. You certified it was road Worthy.
Permalink Reply by mike w. on August 24, 2017 at 10:32am

A bike is "road worthy" only to the extent of its operator's bike handling skills. A bike shop mech's responsibility is only to make sure that the bike is sound and safe as far as it is designed and equipped. The shop is not responsible for how a bike is ridden. The shop may advise the owner as to the wisdom of riding any given bike under certain conditions, but the liability stops at the shop door as long as the bike is mechanically sound when it comes down from the workstand.

As to riding brakeless in urban traffic, personally i have deep doubts that the average brakeless fixie rider has the handling skills of a keirin racer, and i give them a very wide berth.

Permalink Reply by Christopher Wallace on August 24, 2017 at 7:54am
If you own or work at a bike shop that will work on a bike with no pedal or hand brakes. When the cyclist gets hurt or killed, or hurts or kills a cyclist; the liability for the lack of a stopping device falls on your lap. You certified it was road Worthy.
Permalink Reply by mike w. on August 24, 2017 at 10:42am

The issue here isn't really should the cyclist be jailed for riding a fixed wheel bike, but rather should he be jailed for reckless behaviour that lead to a fatality.

My take is the rider was careless and may well have clobbered the pedestrian whatever kind of bike he was riding.

IMHO, it's taking a huge risk riding fixed/brakeless anywhere other than on the velodrome. Having said that, no, it isn't a crime to ride such a machine, just a bad idea, and if one should get into serious trouble on that machine, be prepared for the negative consequences and bad press.

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